high school graduation rates (credit, home, neighborhood)

[takealready]

this is just sad. I remember when I was taking the test, some of my peers were so stressed out they didn't sleep for days. But, this is just heartbreaking.

[lastminutemom]

I was at a party last night, and we talked about this briefly.

Kids in special ed and some non-English speakers get extra years to graduate. (Actually, I think most kids do in practice, even if not in policy.) So, in a freshman class, if 10 percent of students are special ed and 10 percent English language learners, that is a pretty significant number of kids who can stay until they are 21. They are counted as entering freshman then held against the school because they don't finish in 4 years. This is a problem, if the policy requires extra time, the students should not be counted in the formula.

Poor kids aren't dropping out to work -- there are very few jobs left for people without high school diplomas. Starting soon (if not in effect now) McDonald's is going to require new hires that are 19 to have a diplomma or GED. The unemployment rate of African American teens is unbelievably high.

This is a crisis. And it is a crisis that comes as the state continues to cut funding to schools. We need strong vocational programs and a message to kids and parents that these are viable, respectable paths. We need a variety of these programs so that average and below average kids can graduate with skills needed to enter the workforce (or at least be trainable.) Not everyone can be an engineer.

[oakhurstlauren]

Originally Posted by chalvey

I think ATLTJL is right when saying that these numbers are "pessimistic". But it is definitely an eye opener. IMO, it's time to stop reassuring ourselves that everything is fine and confront the reality, so that we can start initiating reforms.

On a positive note, Decatur HS was 89.4%. Is this due to county kids unable to transfer into it?

Not sure what you're asking. DHS is zoned only to kids who live in Decatur City. You're correct in saying kids in Dekalb County do not attend, but that's not why there is a higher graduation rate there. It has more to do with school size and community involvement. Smaller tight knit community schools is not THE answer, but it's definitely a move in the right direction .
And on that note, Crim has a graduation rate of less than 10%. We discussed Crim in a previous thread on APS redistricting. Just further proof that particular school model is a total waste of time and space, and should be used for the tight knit community forming in Kirkwood and the surrounding neighborhoods.

[SW30303]

Originally Posted by lastminutemom

... Poor kids aren't dropping out to work -- there are very few jobs left for people without high school diplomas. Starting soon (if not in effect now) McDonald's is going to require new hires that are 19 to have a diplomma or GED. The unemployment rate of African American teens is unbelievably high.

This is a crisis. And it is a crisis that comes as the state continues to cut funding to schools. We need strong vocational programs and a message to kids and parents that these are viable, respectable paths. We need a variety of these programs so that average and below average kids can graduate with skills needed to enter the workforce (or at least be trainable.) Not everyone can be an engineer.

This is part of the problem with public schools in Georgia and elsewhere. Over the decades, funding for vocational programs have been cut severely, so much so that many high school students today who are not college-material do not get take any classes in vocational tract areas.

I think this is a huge issue and a crisis within the educational system. A few kids may get mentoring from families and that is key, but the schools simply do not offer enough for vocational-minded students. It is very unfortunate in my opinion.

There are also way too many kids going to college who simply do not belong there, they are not academic enough and should have been steered into possible vocational or technical training of some sort earlier in school. Colleges and universities should not offer remedial classes in math or English. For the most part, the students who are not prepared academically should not be enrolling in college; the chances of dropping out are higher when they are not academically prepared.

[RoslynHolcomb]

I don't understand what happened to the vocational schools. My brother was not at all academically inclined, but could do all kinds of stuff with his hands. Because we had a voc track, and this was in the 70s-80s, he got certified in HVAC. Then he got his electricians license. It goes without saying that he's making nearly $100k per year. I have no doubt that had that training not been available to him he would've been a drop out for sure.

I agree these kids aren't dropping out to work. I've worked with teens since the early nineties, and there weren't any jobs for them then. They're dropping out and/or being pushed out to hang in the streets smoking weed and getting in trouble. Within a few years they'll be in prison, or on the welfare rolls. There is a problem in that our kids aren't being engaged with viable options. They know they're not college material, or they're not interested in college, so what's the point. I worked at Job Corps for five years and I know that young people can learn a trade even when very young. I've seen kids who came to our center barely literate receive eighteen months of training and graduate with a GED and a trade. So it can be done, but yhe kid has to be interested.

And I agree that remedial classes in college is insane. If you need remediation, then college is probably not for you, and there's nothing wrong with that. When did we stop having voc/tech training in our schools? I'll bet there's a direct correlation betwwen that and this horrific drop out rate.

[crabapplejoe]

A major part of the problem is the curriculum in our public schools. Somewhere along the line the "administrators" decided that if we simply make the curriculum more challenging then we will get smarter students. What has happened is the kids in affluent areas have their parents involved every night "helping them with their homework" i.e. doing it for them, and hiring tutors. In the areas created by LBJs "Great Society" where "students" are mothers by 10th grade so they can get a monthy check from the gob'ment there is no help/tutors. The kids, particulary the males, drop out because they feel like they are being taught Greek and know that there is no way they will "get it". I'm sure that teahcing statistics and geometry to 6th graders seemed like a great idea to some "administrator" downtown trying to justify their job. But its just not working out. Not to mention the whole quest for diversity whereby you have "diversity" being meshed into math and science curriculums with no apparent point. We have one generation thinking that Admiral Peary led the first exploration to reach the North Pole, and now they are being taught it was Matthew Henson.

[chalvey]

Originally Posted by oakhurstlauren

Not sure what you're asking. DHS is zoned only to kids who live in Decatur City. You're correct in saying kids in Dekalb County do not attend, but that's not why there is a higher graduation rate there. It has more to do with school size and community involvement. Smaller tight knit community schools is not THE answer, but it's definitely a move in the right direction .
And on that note, Crim has a graduation rate of less than 10%. We discussed Crim in a previous thread on APS redistricting. Just further proof that particular school model is a total waste of time and space, and should be used for the tight knit community forming in Kirkwood and the surrounding neighborhoods.

Thanks for the clarification. I know that Decatur is a brilliant place to live and that its citizenery is very invloved. I just was not sure if DCSS kids could attend DCS. Just wanted to know, since Dunwoody High School only has a 80% graduation rate and its demographics do not represent the surrounding community. I assume that a majority of those dropouts are from other parts of the county.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by crabapplejoe

What has happened is the kids in affluent areas have their parents involved every night "helping them with their homework" i.e. doing it for them, and hiring tutors.

Is that really all that common? I didn't grow up in an affluent area but we did have pretty good schools and a good graduation rate. However, my parents didn't help with homework and I'm pretty sure that was the case with the other kids in school.

Likewise with my children and grandchildren. If they have a particular problem they're welcome to ask for help (although I probably wouldn't have the answer anyway). But ordinarily they work entirely on their own.

[flyonpa]

School Districts & Schools, can game the system. If they have a student who is going to 'Drop Out' One of the things they can do is have the student transfer to a Alternate school within the district. All the student has to do is show up there 1 day, then s/he is counted as a student there. If/when s/he drops out it counted against the alternate school not the 'main' high school, Making its number look better. The Overall district number will not change its percentage, but most people looking at where to live look at the high school there child will attend, not the overall number.

[crabapplejoe]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Is that really all that common? I didn't grow up in an affluent area but we did have pretty good schools and a good graduation rate. However, my parents didn't help with homework and I'm pretty sure that was the case with the other kids in school.

Likewise with my children and grandchildren. If they have a particular problem they're welcome to ask for help (although I probably wouldn't have the answer anyway). But ordinarily they work entirely on their own.

I grew up in a fairly affluent Fulton County school district and my parents never helped with my homework. My friends and I still laugh about this because nobody can remember homework being an issue. It was a short reinforcement of what was taught at school that day. We went out an played the minute we got home. I challenge you to go witness any middle school kids getting of school buses today in upper middle class subdivisons. Every kid trundles off to their respective homes slumped over from carrying a 50 pound backpack to start their homework. More often than not, "homework" is a new learning experience that hasn't been taught in the school, or some major busy work project with little or now learning value. If your grandchildren aren't doing this then they truly are blessed with some pretty good DNA/intelligence. The kids in the lower class neighborhoods, knowing they have no help and can't do the work simply say "screw it lets go do weed" and have dropped out by tenth grade.