How would more rail transit affect metro Atlanta? (Dunwoody, College Park: crime, college)

[Mgyeldell]

Originally Posted by arjay57

You're thinking the station would get a lot of riders heading out of the city of Atlanta to jobs in the Cumberland area? Or vice versa, or both?

Both, hopefully

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by Mgyeldell

Both, hopefully

That actually raises an important point about this proposed Cumberland line.

Most of the discussion I've seen has assumed that it was basically up to Cobb Countians to say yea or nay on this.

However, the TIA is about regional transportation projects. Most city of Atlanta residents now work commute to work somewhere outside the city limits, and a lot of them need to go to the Cumberland area. My guess is that the city of Atlanta is about as much a bedroom community to Cobb as vice versa.

So this station might be equally or more important as a destination than as an origin point. Workers from all over the metro area need to get to Cobb County, and these inbound passengers could be a real boon to Cobb businesses.

Besides, as I mentioned above, the vast majority of Cobb residents already have a pretty sweet commute. Most of them work in the county anyway. Fix up their intra-county roads a bit and they should be in pretty good shape.

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by arjay57

No need to do any thinking-work, aries. I was simply wondering why you thought Cumberland ridership would be more like H.E. Holmes than Dunwoody/Perimeter. If it's easier to respond in key words in a future post that's fine but I may miss it.

To me a Cumberland station would be roughly analogous to Perimeter for three reasons : (1) it would be located in a huge shopping/office district; (2) it would be adjacent to a major junction on the northern arc of 285; and (3) it would eventually be the continuation point to an additional line further out into Cobb County.

OK. Good luck with answering your question.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by testa50

Why are we comparing just one of four MARTA stations in the Central Perimeter area with the entire line to Cumberland (where they might also have several stations)? That just doesn't seem apples-to-apples to me.

Well, as I understand it there's only station planned for Cumberland in the near term. To me such a station would seem more akin to Dunwoody/Perimeter than any of the others for the reasons I mentioned above. It would be located in a huge shopping/office district, adjacent to a major junction on the northern arc, and would eventually be the continuation point to an additional line further out into Cobb County.

Thus the comparison struck me as fairly apt.

One would hope that in the long term the Cobb line would extend beyond Cumberland but that isn't part of the present TIA proposal, is it?

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by arjay57

That actually raises an important point about this proposed Cumberland line.

Most of the discussion I've seen has assumed that it was basically up to Cobb Countians to say yea or nay on this.

However, the TIA is about regional transportation projects. Most city of Atlanta residents now work commute to work somewhere outside the city limits, and a lot of them need to go to the Cumberland area. My guess is that the city of Atlanta is about as much a bedroom community to Cobb as vice versa.

So this station might be equally or more important as a destination than as an origin point. Workers from all over the metro area need to get to Cobb County, and these inbound passengers could be a real boon to Cobb businesses.

Besides, as I mentioned above, the vast majority of Cobb residents already have a pretty sweet commute. Most of them work in the county anyway. Fix up their intra-county roads a bit and they should be in pretty good shape.

I suspect you're right ... and the ability to bring folks from the City of Atlanta into Cobb County more easily is as much a plus for the metro as having the capability in reverse. That's why I'm still on the fence about this. I like that aspect of it. And it's a very nice stub for future expansion.

Without the stub in place, a line to Marietta and beyond is that much less likely in the future. I need to put my thinking cap back on.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by arjay57

One would hope that in the long term the Cobb line would extend beyond Cumberland but that isn't part of the present TIA proposal, is it?

It isn't, but one needs to build the basement (or slab, or whatever) before one puts up walls. So this step is something that needs to be done first in any case.

[testa50]

My point is that if you were to shut down/eliminate all the Perimeter area stations except for one, you'd probably see that one remaining station have a big increase in traffic. It would be lower than the sum of all the existing stations, since some people would just not use the train anymore, but theoretically a solid number of people have a choice of which station to use in the Perimeter area--if North Springs were to close, some people would drive to Sandy Springs and use that one.

I haven't seen any indication of the number of stations there would be at Cumberland. The area is more than a mile wide, so it could easily use more than one station.

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by rcsteiner

Without the stub in place, a line to Marietta and beyond is that much less likely in the future.

True, but for a line to ever be extended to Marietta would take a re-authorization of the TSPLOST in 10 years, and the assumption that other factors don't prevent that extension. Best case is 15 to 20 years from now.

I just keep coming back to the planning and forecasting. What has been done to forecast ridership in 10 to 20 years for a line to/from Midtown, whether it terminates at Cumberland or somewhere further north? What would the cost be to build an extension from Cumberland north in 10 years? Is the right of way available or at least potentially available and not likely to be stuck in litigation for 10 years?

What will the fare have to be based on operating costs at today's dollar? How much will be taxpayer subsidized? Which taxpayers will subsidize, state or county, and will Fulton and Cobb share that operating expense? Have any of these kinds of mundane questions been thought through and answered?

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by testa50

My point is that if you were to shut down/eliminate all the Perimeter area stations except for one, you'd probably see that one remaining station have a big increase in traffic. It would be lower than the sum of all the existing stations, since some people would just not use the train anymore, but theoretically a solid number of people have a choice of which station to use in the Perimeter area--if North Springs were to close, some people would drive to Sandy Springs and use that one.

Oh, I see what you're saying and that is logical.

[K-SawDude]

Originally Posted by rcsteiner

I suspect you're right ... and the ability to bring folks from the City of Atlanta into Cobb County more easily is as much a plus for the metro as having the capability in reverse. That's why I'm still on the fence about this. I like that aspect of it. And it's a very nice stub for future expansion.

Without the stub in place, a line to Marietta and beyond is that much less likely in the future. I need to put my thinking cap back on.

As somebody who lives intown and commutes this direction--as well as shops/dines in Cumberland at times--I'm definitely one of these folks that would benefit from the rail line.

But I think one point here is that the officials need to be explaining this to the public. Surely they've run numbers to determine where the demand for the rail line will be coming from. It would help Cobb voters' support to know if they'd be getting more $$$ from intowners and out-of-towners taking rail up to Cumberland.