Design Your Own MARTA Expansion (Atlanta: unemployment rate, lawsuits, land)

[arjay57]

I was looking at the TIA projects MARTA submitted and one of the biggies was for what they call "state of good repair," which basically means working on what they've already got. I wonder if they're thinking that's what they would use their money for, instead of new mileage?

Also, I was thinking about the fact that this tax is only for 10 years. Given our track record, it takes 10 years to even get off the drawing board and another 10 to condemn the land. What happens when the 10 years runs out? Or if they have started something and suddenly run out of money?

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by BusinessMan30331

does anyone know the total budget for Marta, CCT, Gwinnett Transit, Xpress bus and the now defunct C-Tran. I'm speaking their combined capital, operational, debt services and other expenses. How much do they receive for advertising on buses, trains, and leases of both property and billboards owned by these transit services. Also what is the total value of property and assets by said transit agencies. I have developed a business model that if all these agencies were privately purchased their current levels of service could be increased and expanded also ridership would be increased, under my current model it would not uses a single cent of taxpayer money no state, no local, and no federal. Fulton and Dekalb could remove the penny sales tax they are currently paying. The model I have come up with would generate 1.2 billion on the low end to 2.1 billion per year in revenue possibly more with increased ridership. I would just need to plug in the numbers to see if I have a profitable business model and if it would work so any input would be appreciated.

If you dug enough on each agency's website, you'd probably find the numbers you're looking for. That is one advantage of their being public organizations--that type of info is available to the public. Finding it may be a different story, though!

I think whatever numbers you come up with, mere consolidation of all these agencies should improve cost efficiency for two reasons: (1) We would need fewer people to manage everything, and (2) Routes could be much more easily streamlined. Whatever organization this is, they oughta hire a few industrial engineers from Tech and flesh that out. Trust me, people there (both faculty and students) would dive head-first into a project like that.

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

Do share because I'm quite confident that transit, for all of its benefits, will continue to be a significant net loser. Can you name one profitable (or one that even breaks even) transit agency in the country? Pretty sure the "business model (you) developed" is wrong.

This horse has been beaten to death many, many times over. What does the anti-transit crowd not understand about a cost-BENEFIT analysis?? What does it [sic] not understand that there have been documented benefits of transit expansion, that there have been cities and communities that have experienced economic benefits above and beyond the cost of the transit? Or are we just gonna keep paving more roads to nowhere? Sheesh, I get tired of this crap...

[arjay57]

Atlanta region: $7B transportation funding cuts *| ajc.com

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by toll_booth

This horse has been beaten to death many, many times over. What does the anti-transit crowd not understand about a cost-BENEFIT analysis?? What does it [sic] not understand that there have been documented benefits of transit expansion, that there have been cities and communities that have experienced economic benefits above and beyond the cost of the transit? Or are we just gonna keep paving more roads to nowhere? Sheesh, I get tired of this crap...

No kidding. Cost-benefit analysis. The pro-transit crowd often gets so excited over the 'thats cool' factor, that they ignore the multi-billion costs. Is it worth spending $1 billion to extend transit 4 miles along an existing right of way to Emory and the CDC? Sure it sounds good, but is it worth it to ad maybe 15,000 riders a day for $1 billion!?!?

I am pro transit where it makes sense. Someone has to end up paying for it though. No one ever answers the "How would you pay for it" question. But... but... but.... My transit map is cool and I made up numbers to show that I can build 200 miles of light rail and this will magically break even. Get a clue guys.

People keep forgetting that this proposed tax is a regional tax. No one is going to support spending all $6 billion on in-town projects to increase transit in the in-town areas.

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

No kidding. Cost-benefit analysis. The pro-transit crowd often gets so excited over the 'thats cool' factor, that they ignore the multi-billion costs. Is it worth spending $1 billion to extend transit 4 miles along an existing right of way to Emory and the CDC? Sure it sounds good, but is it worth it to ad maybe 15,000 riders a day for $1 billion!?!?

But if we do not pursue transit expansion, what is the magic bullet to solve our worsening traffic problems, which cost this metro area billions every year? More roads and wider roads are not the answer; repeated studies have shown that such roads just fill right up, rendering the multi-million dollar project nearly useless.

Here is an article that highlights all the likely economic benefits of a good transit system. Note that it goes well beyond congestion relief, which IMO is its #1 benefit.

I am pro transit where it makes sense. Someone has to end up paying for it though. No one ever answers the "How would you pay for it" question. But... but... but.... My transit map is cool and I made up numbers to show that I can build 200 miles of light rail and this will magically break even. Get a clue guys.

People keep forgetting that this proposed tax is a regional tax. No one is going to support spending all $6 billion on in-town projects to increase transit in the in-town areas.

Help me understand this attitude, corndog. Help me understand why no suburbanites want an easier commute into town. Help me understand why it is such a bad thing for the entire region to come together for everyone's benefit. Help me understand why a transportation system that, if designed well, can bring all sorts of long-term benefits not just to the riders but the communities they serve as well.

Atlanta is one of the worst sprawling metro areas on the planet. Literally. People from all over the world study us as an example of how NOT to do urban planning. We've got people who buy houses in Carrollton, Cartersville, Athens, etc.; take long-term jobs in downtown, Midtown, or Perimeter; and complain that traffic is oh-so-bad. You know why it's so bad? Because you've got so many cars driving such long distances. That eats up road space like you wouldn't believe. THAT, corndog, should be the fundamental gripe against suburb-to-city transit, that it will enable more sprawl; NOT that it "costs too much." Haven't we had enough of that attitude in the last two-and-a-half years?

[alco89]

Originally Posted by toll_booth

But if we do not pursue transit expansion, what is the magic bullet to solve our worsening traffic problems, which cost this metro area billions every year? More roads and wider roads are not the answer; repeated studies have shown that such roads just fill right up, rendering the multi-million dollar project nearly useless.

Here is an article that highlights all the likely economic benefits of a good transit system. Note that it goes well beyond congestion relief, which IMO is its #1 benefit.



Help me understand this attitude, corndog. Help me understand why no suburbanites want an easier commute into town. Help me understand why it is such a bad thing for the entire region to come together for everyone's benefit. Help me understand why a transportation system that, if designed well, can bring all sorts of long-term benefits not just to the riders but the communities they serve as well.

Atlanta is one of the worst sprawling metro areas on the planet. Literally. People from all over the world study us as an example of how NOT to do urban planning. We've got people who buy houses in Carrollton, Cartersville, Athens, etc.; take long-term jobs in downtown, Midtown, or Perimeter; and complain that traffic is oh-so-bad. You know why it's so bad? Because you've got so many cars driving such long distances. That eats up road space like you wouldn't believe. THAT, corndog, should be the fundamental gripe against suburb-to-city transit, that it will enable more sprawl; NOT that it "costs too much." Haven't we had enough of that attitude in the last two-and-a-half years?

I can't agree more!!!

[AnsleyPark]

Originally Posted by alco89

I can't agree more!!!

IMO, there are folks who don't directly (personally) use mass transit an never will. So, they don't want to pay for a system that only others use. They don't really appreciate how paying for that system will make their lives better by reducing traffic and by fueling the local economic engine. Most folks play checkers, not chess, you know. Not because they aren't intelligent enough to play chess, but because it would require them to really think beyond their next move - and that requires a lot of thought and education. So, unless our officials and / or media can make mass transit relevant to everyone - even to non-riders - we are going to have a huge uphill battle in getting the system financed and built out.

Just my humble opinion.

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by AnsleyPark

IMO, there are folks who don't directly (personally) use mass transit an never will. So, they don't want to pay for a system that only others use. They don't really appreciate how paying for that system will make their lives better by reducing traffic and by fueling the local economic engine. Most folks play checkers, not chess, you know. Not because they aren't intelligent enough to play chess, but because it would require them to really think beyond their next move - and that requires a lot of thought and education. So, unless our officials and / or media can make mass transit relevant to everyone - even to non-riders - we are going to have a huge uphill battle in getting the system financed and built out.

Just my humble opinion.

Mass transit is actually relevant to anyone in the area. Anytime someone chooses to park and ride, or not to drive in the first place, that's one less car on the road. Multiply that times the 250,000+ riders on MARTA every day, and that can start to make a dent in the traffic congestion. And if that were to ever expand up to 400,000 or 500,000 riders per day...

[AnsleyPark]

Originally Posted by toll_booth

Mass transit is actually relevant to anyone in the area. Anytime someone chooses to park and ride, or not to drive in the first place, that's one less car on the road. Multiply that times the 250,000+ riders on MARTA every day, and that can start to make a dent in the traffic congestion. And if that were to ever expand up to 400,000 or 500,000 riders per day...

Oh, I agree with you, but folks don't study and educate themselves any more. The general populace seems to make its mind up in seconds, if that long. As a result, we get short-sighted policy. I've just heard too many people, who seem to be otherwise very intelligent, denigrate MARTA and mass transit simply because they don't use it. Forget the ancillary benefits of reduced auto traffic, encouragement of economic development, expanding personal opportunities, etc.

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by AnsleyPark

Oh, I agree with you, but folks don't study and educate themselves any more. The general populace seems to make its mind up in seconds, if that long. As a result, we get short-sighted policy. I've just heard too many people, who seem to be otherwise very intelligent, denigrate MARTA and mass transit simply because they don't use it. Forget the ancillary benefits of reduced auto traffic, encouragement of economic development, expanding personal opportunities, etc.

Very true. Let's hope that, if they don't change their mind by the time the referendum is up for a vote, at least they'll calm down a little.