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As I said in another forum, the populations of Cobb and Gwinnett Counties combined would be the 40th largest state in the country and the counties combined don't have a foot of commuter track between them. In 15 years Cobb County will structurally have collapsed. Cumberland may fair ok because of its density, jobs, and proximity to Atlanta but the rest of Cobb will be a parking lot.
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Originally Posted by ostriches
Cobb County will not see any type of rail heavy or light for at least 15 years, minimum. First Marta has to come to county line. No plans or funding in place. 2ndly, a park/ride lot in vicinity of rail has to be built & USED. 3rdly,.. Cobb has to become agressive in planning (real town/community centers) along future routes. Anyone seen any greenspace, site design guidelines, boundary drawings, planned development using denser building characteristics w/ living/work/shopping all included along 41? I've seen NO sign of progress in that direction whatsoever!!
Gwinnett will recieve fed funding- their line will connect to Doraville Marta. They have their plan in place. Look up the Gwinnett Village CID,.. transportation link. Its brilliant- hits almost every population area!
Feds won't be giving up 2 billion to run a line up an outdated roadway, past an air field, car sales lots & big chicken!
Get real, folks!
The leaders are the doers!!!
Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelers10
As I said in another forum, the populations of Cobb and Gwinnett Counties combined would be the 40th largest state in the country and the counties combined don't have a foot of commuter track between them. In 15 years Cobb County will structurally have collapsed. Cumberland may fair ok because of its density, jobs, and proximity to Atlanta but the rest of Cobb will be a parking lot.
Cumberland is a business and convention center, with VERY little residential. It draws from the surrounding residential areas (Smyrna, Marietta, Mabelton, Austell, etc.) for workers, etc., and those areas aren't far enough from the Cumberland complex to make automobile travel inconvenient. Rail is an option there, sure, but not a necessity.
Your prediction is interesting, but I think largely incorrect.
Cumberland is a business and convention center, with VERY little residential. It draws from the surrounding residential areas (Smyrna, Marietta, Mabelton, Austell, etc.) for workers, etc., and those areas aren't far enough from the Cumberland complex to make automobile travel inconvenient. Rail is an option there, sure, but not a necessity.
Your prediction is interesting, but I think largely incorrect.
I'm not sure we disagree on this one. I think Cumberland will fair ok because it is already developed and commuters do not have to come from far away in South Cobb. But do you see any equivalent of a Cumberland forming anywhere else in Cobb (particularly Northwest Cobb) in the next 15 years without the benefit of mass transit? I think Cumberland benefitted greatly to its adjacency to Fulton and being inside the perimeter.
Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
11,334 posts, read 26,235,505 times
Reputation: 3996
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelers10
I'm not sure we disagree on this one. I think Cumberland will fair ok because it is already developed and commuters do not have to come from far away in South Cobb. But do you see any equivalent of a Cumberland forming anywhere else in Cobb (particularly Northwest Cobb) in the next 15 years without the benefit of mass transit? I think Cumberland benefitted greatly to its adjacency to Fulton and being inside the perimeter.
I think I agree with you that Cumberland and its satellite communities are probably in good shape, but I don't see a giant vortex forming and sucking the rest of Cobb away, either, as you seem to suggest.
There's a huge retail and restaurant base along Barrett Parkway, and around that 75/575 split area, and I know there are a number of businesses and such along Cumberland Blvd up that way, but that's more in central Cobb.
NW Cobb? That's up by Acworth. I don't know that area. But that's sort of on the periphery of the metro anyway, and they have a lake. I don't know that it would be an optimal place for a major business park even with public transit in place.
Really, Cobb seems to have developed diagonally from Vinings/Cumberland/Smyrna in the SE up through Marietta and beyond to Kennesaw and Acworth, all roughly along the south side of I-75. I would think a nice rail line running along the same general vector would serve many people well. There may not even be a need for a connection to MARTA, though I think that would dramatically increase the line's utility.
But do you see any equivalent of a Cumberland forming anywhere else in Cobb (particularly Northwest Cobb) in the next 15 years without the benefit of mass transit?
Town Center is the only other place I think is a definite. Thornton Rd/Camp Creek area West of Six Flags is a possibility IF West Atlanta continues to improve, however office in that part of Atlanta has historically done poorly and I'm not sure what could turn that around... Maybe a MARTA extension to Thornton Rd? Rail is definitely needed for denser re-development outside Town Center and Cumberland CID (and their surrounding areas).
The average price per mile for heavy rail today is $150 million, so at that price you might as well extend MARTA into Cobb County.
You can't compare rural heavy rail to urban heavy rail in price. The cost for doing heavy rail through a heavily built cooridor would be much more expensive than modifying the road to have rail tracks. Triple-tracking heavy rail necessitates purchasing right-of-way. Even if going up the CSX line, so much of the track isn't bordered by enough of a buffer to triple-track it. So in some places tunneling may be needed. It would also have to be upgraded to better computerized rail traffic control. Extending "MARTA" (it'd be CCT, but probably identical train stock) up to Town Center would in the end cost significantly more and the price increases every year due to additional development whereas it doesn't change along Cobb Parkway since no one is building directly on top of the road.
Triple-tracking through Vinings is going to be tough tough tough because I bet the HOA there will fight for the people living along the track to avoid part of their land being taken as a right-of-way and the Paces Ferry crossing will probably be contentious. End result is any new tracks may need to be tunnelled, which is $$. It may work better short-term to triple-track to Atlanta Rd, saving the trip through the heart of Vinings, and put a station there. That will serve all Vinings commuters anyway. Then light rail can be run up Atlanta Rd and then down Cumberland Parkway to
meet up with the N-S light rail on Cobb Parkway.
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Originally Posted by toll_booth
Otherwise, I'm just concerned that if light rail shares right-of-way with 41 traffic, it's going to slow down the trains to the point that they're just trams. Phoenix, Dallas, etc. light rail, by contrast, typically have their own right-of-way off the roads other than at-grade crossings.
If you have seen what they've done in European cities like Dresden, you wouldn't need to be concerned. For light-rail in the median, a median can be added and light rail run through it. If a median is added, then light rail and stations can be in the median and U-turn lanes can be added for the road at various points (U-turn lanes shared with the light-rail). Only other places besides U-turn lanes where the road is shared are at intersections and turn lanes.
Last edited by netdragon; 06-29-2010 at 06:30 PM..
Honestly, I think this supposed "fact" deserves further scrutiny. You really think that people don't want a better transit system in the Atlanta metro? Really??? I bet if you polled this question year over year over the last decade or so, you'd see increasing numbers of people--possibly a majority--who think the transit here is underdeveloped.
Now, as soon as this discussion gets framed as, "your taxes will have to increase," OF COURSE people are going to say no to whatever you put in front of them. People are irate left and right about what's happening to schools now, but no politicians have the guts to tell people what they need to hear: if you want services, you gotta pay for them.
I'd bet that in formal polls, ATLliens would claim BOTH of the following, despite the obvious contradiction: "we need better transit" and "my taxes are too high."
I'm not discussing taxes. I'm discussing the fact that a recent referendum was held in Gwinnett. I'm discussing the fact that a vote can be held in Cobb or Gwinnett or Forsyth or any other county at any time if there was a clamoring for MARTA. Fact is that no one is breaking down the door to get a local option MARTA tax on the ballot, and when a straw poll is taken, MARTA fails.
I've also NEVER heard a single person that I work with even mention transit, one way or the other. It's just a non topic. Sorry to disappoint, but people who live in East Cobb or Forsyth Co and work in Alpharetta don't give a damn about MARTA.
neil: Call it MARTA, it fails. Call it CCT and it won't.
CCT doesn't require a referendum, and again....with no bias intended....if the residents of Cobb felt that more and improved transit was required in the county, then political pressure would be placed on the county Commissioners and those in a position to make it happen.
Cobb County is result of spawl , poor leadership & zero vision. I have never heard Cobb's leaders speak of a VISION for Cobb & its future. It is wasted breath to talk about rail. What needs to happen here , is 1st, folks need to wake up & be aware of who they're voting for & support visionaries, NOT lifetime politicians. All of Cobbs taxes gets funneled into a small coridor of neighborhoods along Johnson Ferry. South Cobb is a wasteland. West Cobb has @ least tried to be as smart as possible,... but being so far away from interstates will be tough for them to bring quality bisinesses there.
Georgia is recieving minimal funding for transportation, because we haven't proved we would know what to do w/ it.
We HAVE to work to improve MARTA, because it IS Atlantas rail system. We HAVE nothing else! Atlanta & surrounding counties should have laid out the groundwork 20 years ago w/ a solid thoughtful plan to move people from outer populated area, into the city & to the airport. Only a small portion was completed.
Surely , it is a joke, to even mention a 2 billion rail along tone of he poorest sections of metro atl. KSU is Cobbs hope. The students would be the 1st to use rail. They won't be shopping @ Cumberland. They would want to be connected to the city-- (Atlanta). That one college isn't enough to justify rail.
The leaders (?) of Cobb ,.. if planning to submit a plan for rail along 41,.. should have spent the last 10 years putting together plans & development along 41, for mixed use communities, high density housing , senior housing, park/ride lots, city/town connector corridors , bycicle/ pedestrian malls & walkways, greenspace & parks & entertainment venues.
I don't think anyone involved w/ Cobb County &/or GDOT &/or CDOT are very familiar w/ TOD guidelines-(Transportation Oriented Development)
It's really a shame to see us so far behind the rest of the country. Cities are trying to be forward thinking & looking towards world class status,.. to keep up w/ the new global world economy we are moving towards. That's the ONLY way to attract new industry, business & jobs!!
It takes VISIONARIES that are willing to MAKE things happen,..if talk continues status quo,... Cobb will be one of the worst places in this country to live.
I'll put money on Gwinett moving forward w/ rail,.. also Marta will continue up 400 corridor! (there's smart growth in that direction,... & $$$ too!)
Check out how far behind we are by going to Rail Threads- & look @ video for Metrolight Rail- Houston. Just one of MANY cities moving forward,... not stuck in the '70's!
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On same page?
I think Cumberland will fair ok because it is already developed and commuters do not have to come from far away in South Cobb. But do you see any equivalent of a Cumberland forming anywhere else in Cobb (particularly Northwest Cobb) in the next 15 years without the benefit of mass transit? I think Cumberland benefitted greatly to its adjacency to Fulton and being inside the perimeter.
I don't know that it would be an optimal place for a major business park even with public transit in place.
