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I can tell a $2 from a $12+ wine, but above that, nope.
Frankly, much above that and you are paying for a supply/demand issue (wine coming from a limited reserve) rather than a measurable difference in quality.
As far as the nuance of flavor and their descriptors being bs, I have to disagree. It is fairly easy to train oneself to detect not only the common descriptors and aromas, but also to tell one off-flavor from another in bad wine.
In fact, for me it is much easier to detect flavors by descriptor than it is to distinguish between varietals, especially the less common ones.
Then you shouldn't waste your money on expensive wine. I'm a foodie, and I can tell the difference between a retail $10-20 wine and a $100 or thereabouts, the latter is better but... I can't consistently tell between a $15 wine and a $30, so we usually drink $10-15 wines and very rarely splurge on an expensive wine.
There actually are "supertasters" (a prerequisite for a legit professional sommelier) who really can distinguish subtle nuances and "notes" between wines, but they are few and far between. Women are more likely to be supertasters, but it's still very uncommon. Most people you meet who tell you they know the difference, are outright posers. When posers tell you they're getting "currants, apple, jammy, buttery, chewy, blah-blah" - they read it somewhere or they're making it up knowing no one around is likely to know otherwise.
Like the OP, I've read a bunch of wine books and tried, but my taste buds aren't that discerning. Probably a blessing, saves me the cost of buying expensive wines except infrequently for very special occasions.
But for Pete's sake - don't drink $2 wine!!!
I don't like wine but when I dated a wine drinker who ordered good wine I did find some that I liked. Cheap wine? No way, Jose.
To anyone with a Netflix streaming account, I highly suggest watching the documentary Sour Grapes. I never knew "wine fraud" was a thing until I watched it.
I think everyone has a point above which their appreciation goes down. I will spend up to $40 on a nice bottle of wine on occasion, but I appreciate up to about $100 / $125 and will splurge on one of those every once in while. Above that, though, and I can't tell the difference.
My uncle makes his own wine and knows a lot about it. He has won several titles and now judges wine. He has an amazingly precise palate, as my more skeptical uncle learned one year in giving him a gift bottle of wine. It had been gven to him by his boss and was out of his boss' vineyard. He only made about a case of wine a year and only gave it to friends and colleagues. In other words, there was no way my wine-making uncle had tried it before. My skeptical uncle asked him simply to name the country from which the wine came, and he would be impressed enough. But my wine making uncle not only correctly named the country where the wine was made but the very valley of origin of the grapes (which by the way originated in another country). It was pretty amazing. He and a couple of buddies every once in a while go in on an incredibly expensive bottle since they can actually appreciate it. in a way I kind of feel bad for them since I get just as much enjoyment out of a glass of wine a fraction of the cost.
Last edited by CrowGirl; 03-27-2017 at 03:28 PM..
Reason: Fix typo
Then you shouldn't waste your money on expensive wine. I'm a foodie, and I can tell the difference between a retail $10-20 wine and a $100 or thereabouts, the latter is better but... I can't consistently tell between a $15 wine and a $30, so we usually drink $10-15 wines and very rarely splurge on an expensive wine.
There actually are "supertasters" (a prerequisite for a legit professional sommelier) who really can distinguish subtle nuances and "notes" between wines, but they are few and far between. Women are more likely to be supertasters, but it's still very uncommon. Most people you meet who tell you they know the difference, are outright posers. When posers tell you they're getting "currants, apple, jammy, buttery, chewy, blah-blah" - they read it somewhere or they're making it up knowing no one around is likely to know otherwise.
Like the OP, I've read a bunch of wine books and tried, but my taste buds aren't that discerning. Probably a blessing, saves me the cost of buying expensive wines except infrequently for very special occasions.
But for Pete's sake - don't drink $2 wine!!!
Funny how frequently this topic comes up. Descriptors (currants, apple, etc.) are just common ways of describing certain flavors that commonly exist in wine. It's only when (critics) get too flowery that you know someone's trying to fill column inches ("day-old lemon peel cured in the sun"). Tasting wine is not that complicated. Currants (black fruit flavors, often associated with Cabernet Sauvignon), apple (non-citrus white fruit flavors usually associated with Chardonnay), jammy (red or black fruit with the structure characteristic of Zinfandel), buttery (oak and/or malolactic fermentation flavor on a white wine--especially Chardonnay), chewy (harsh tannins--the feeling that a red wine is drying out & sticking to your mouth & tongue) are all just common descriptors.
While there are variations in palate sensitivity, there are a handful of characteristics that anybody can taste or observe:
Color
Aromas & Flavors
Structure (body--really, the texture of the wine in your mouth--tannins fit here, as do acidity, alcohol, sweetness, etc.)
Finish (fundamentally about length of time the flavor stays in your mouth, but also whether the flavor changes after you have drunk the wine)
And that's really it. Certain regions, grapes, and winemaking styles lead to recurring characteristics in each of those categories. Oak barrels impart certain flavors and aromas to wine (particularly noticeable in whites, in my view).
Price could be a dissertation. The short version: the market sets the price for wine. Scarcity and demand matter. Champagne is more desired than other sparkling wines, and the price reflects its desirability. It is also good.
Age affects a wine's appearance, aromas, flavors, structure, and finish. "Age-worthy" wines develop & improve with time. Once aged, they are also more scarce than wines lacking age, and their price premium reflects that scarcity.
You can find great bargains in wine. The more you know, the easier it will be. The market exponentially increases the price for the world's most celebrated regions, grapes, and producers. Want a fantastic wine for $12? Look away from those regions, grapes, and producers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SluggoF16
My sister is an assistant winemaker in California, and she says that most wines over $50 are priced that way for pretension. Once after work the owner came in with three paper bag covered wine bottles. All were California Bordeaux-style blends, or Meritage if you prefer that term. Everyone at the winery got to sample each, a benefit of working in a winery. They then rank-ordered them. The winner was a $40 Paso Robles blend, and the second was Opus One, a $200+ Napa cab blend. Third place was a Central Coast blend that was around ten dollars. It was just barely third place. No one picked Opus One as the best wine.
Later that year my sister hosted a Christmas party with some of her winery friends (damn, she has a great job!) and she poured a cabernet sauvignon that I sent her from a winery in north Texas. Yes, Texas. $8.99 screw cap. Everyone ranted and raved about how good it was.
It's been said here a few times already, and I'll reiterate: price isn't the sole determinant of wine quality. A lot of it depends on personal taste, and most people can't really differentiate between Opus One and Beringer Reserve. Until they pay the bill.
Case in point: Napa & Sonoma counties are two of the world's most celebrated regions. Napa, especially, is known for its Bordeaux blends. Opus One is a celebrated bordeaux blend from Napa. Production is low, production quality is high, demand is high, and price reflects those factors. Paso Robles is in the Central Coast, a region that produces fine wines, but is not celebrated in the way that Napa is. Prices, again, reflect that state of affairs. That's not to say that Opus One is not good--it is--but other wines, too, are good. And they cost less.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQConvict
I can tell a $2 from a $12+ wine, but above that, nope.
Frankly, much above that and you are paying for a supply/demand issue (wine coming from a limited reserve) rather than a measurable difference in quality.
As far as the nuance of flavor and their descriptors being bs, I have to disagree. It is fairly easy to train oneself to detect not only the common descriptors and aromas, but also to tell one off-flavor from another in bad wine.
In fact, for me it is much easier to detect flavors by descriptor than it is to distinguish between varietals, especially the less common ones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrowGirl
I think everyone has a point above which their appreciation goes down. I will spend up to $40 on a nice bottle of wine on occasion, but I appreciate up to about $100 / $125 and will splurge on one of those every once in while. Above that, though, and I can't tell the difference.
My uncle makes his own wine and knows a lot about it. He has won several titles and now judges wine. He has an amazingly precise palate, as my more skeptical uncle learned one year in giving him a gift bottle of wine. It had been gven to him by his boss and was out of his boss' vineyard. He only made about a case of wine a year and only gave it to friends and colleagues. In other words, there was no way my wine-making uncle had tried it before. My skeptical uncle asked him simply to name the country from which the wine came, and he would be impressed enough. But my wine making uncle not only correctly named the country where the wine was made but the very valley of origin of the grapes (which by the way originated in another country). It was pretty amazing. He and a couple of buddies every once in a while go in on an incredibly expensive bottle since they can actually appreciate it. in a way I kind of feel bad for them since I get just as much enjoyment out of a glass of wine a fraction of the cost.
Supply and demand set the price, but there's a reason that there is enough demand to justify prices of $40, $80, and $200. Those are good wines. You may not like them. You may prefer others. But they are generally good.
I think I could nail Old World v. New World with 90% accuracy. Grape ~10% & age ~15%. Specific country? maybe 15%. There are plenty of regions & grapes that I haven't tasted enough to know well. My experience with older wines is pretty limited, too. I think I could make the call of Champagne v. non-Champagne sparkling wine ~70% of the time.
I like the sweeter white wines,,,i dislikes the merlot.. or dry wines
sometimes I really like the flavor and sometimes it gives me wicked heartburn
anyways..i rarely buy wine.....but when I did for either a gift.... id go all out and get something over 10 dollars
I have had very expensive wine before on several occasions.... but it didn't do much for me..
like an expensive cigar,,,,,,
I don't smoke enough to want to know the difference.....I don't drink enough..
now what if I educated myself and started learning the differences???
would the cost of buying wine go up and up and up....then id be a wine snob..
ignorance is bliss....ill drink white wine and like it most of the time..
now my best buddy owns a homebrew shop and has been making his own homebrews for 15 yrs,,,and goes into the subtleties of different beers and tastes..
I like beer better than wine,,
Wow! I thought that I was the only one and afraid to admit it. But hey, I'm in good company.
The only exception is Taittinger champagnes over other champagnes including Dom. Even my late wife, a 99% teetotaler liked that over others. Only time we had 'pagne though was New Year's Eve.
Yes I have read books and watched videos and listened to experts; I know all about swirl and smell and sip anbd spit. But somehow I just cannot grasp all those abstract concepts of what is good wine and not so good wine.
Do you have a way to explain it?
Good for you, saves a lot of money that way. I am not a wine snob nor would I know the difference between a $10 bottle, but I certainly know the difference between say a box of Peter Villa and a $10 bottle.
I think Charles Shaw $2.99 Chardonnay is one of the best bangs for the buck out there which is why they call it Two Buck Chuck.
On the other hand, a good DOCG Barolo will make me cry and it can easily run $100 a bottle.
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When posers tell you they're getting "currants, apple, jammy, buttery, chewy, blah-blah" - they read it somewhere or they're making it up knowing no one around is likely to know otherwise.
