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They were unarmed because they didn't want to deal with the fallout from CA Fish and Wildlife.
The family said the brothers had gone out Saturday in search of deer antler sheds — a pastime they did together frequently in the spring before the grass grew too tall to see the shed antlers. That day was also the start of junior turkey hunting season, so the brothers chose not take any firearms with them to avoid attention from the California Department of Fish and Wildlife.
I do not think you can carry a loaded firearm in California anywhere except your own property. Perhaps you can carry a rabbit/turkey hunting rifle without a permit, that type of rifle will not be enough to stop a mountain lion, maybe scare it...if they didn't want a ranger to notice them, then maybe that is illegal as well :/
You really cannot get a CCW in California from what I understand. Supposedly, some counties will issue them, but I doubt it.
Hunters can carry certain hunting rifles with a tag. Tags are on a lottery and not always easy to obtain from my understanding.
Hopefully you can carry bear spray, but I do not think you are even allowed to buy it in California....ok, I looked it up and you cannot carry bear spray in Yosemite, but can other areas. I do know that Amazon tries to block certain zip codes from buying bear spray.
Anyway, imo bear spray is a better way to survive. Not many of us can aim at a pouncing mountain lion in time and get a kill shot and if you have dogs or kids around, you could kill or injure them. I also think you can get in trouble with the law for shooting at a lion or bear in California, even if you say it's charging you, how can you prove it?
That being said, I hear people target shooting all the time while I'm hiking or camping in California, so I don't know...maybe the rural counties look the other way....
I've read that in Siberia a brown bear will make a point of avoiding an encounter with a tiger. Of course, the tiger is quite a bit larger than a mountain lion.
There was a story (Tiger!) about a group of guys going after a man eater at a remote spot in that region.
They were out looking for it when the tiger made a surprise attack from the side. The man was well armed, would have died if not for his companions managing to shoot it while it was jumping him.
I second the notion that being armed won't necessarily protect you from a big cat attack.
Also, no man alive could possibly fight off a mountain lion if it were really intent on killing you. Hell, you couldn't even fight off a wild boar with the same intent.
I do not think you can carry a loaded firearm in California anywhere. Perhaps you can carry a rabbit/turkey hunting rifle without a permit, that type of rifle will not be enough to stop a mountain lion, maybe scare it...if they didn't want a ranger to notice them, then maybe that is illegal as well :/
You really cannot get a CCW in California from what I understand. Supposedly, some counties will issue them, but I doubt it.
Hunters can carry certain hunting rifles with a tag. Tags are on a lottery and not always easy to obtain from my understanding.
Hopefully you can carry bear spray, but I do not think you are even allowed to buy it in California....ok, I looked it up and you cannot carry bear spray in Yosemite, but can other areas. I do know that Amazon tries to block certain zip codes from buying bear spray.
Anyway, in imo bear spray is a better way to survive. Not many of us can aim at a pouncing mountain lion in time and get a kill shot and if you have dogs or kids around, you could kill or injure them.
They were on National Forest land, not California state land. It is possible you can open carry a gun while hiking on National Forest land.
It used to be you could shoot in a National Forest or on BLM land within California's borders, as long as you followed the law about proximity to roads and homes and camp sites. California law may have changed that in recent decades.
I don't know if that is true or what.
I found this website about legally carrying a gun in a National Forest, but man it is so complicated, I am not sure.
They make it clear you can have a gun at your camp site, but how can you get it to your camp site if it is illegal?
Federal law assumes you can open carry firearms on Federal land, unless expressly prohibited, such as in National Parks. But then the law also says "in compliance with State law". So that is pretty confusing.
Boy, California sure makes it difficult and confusing, and the consequences of "guessing" wrong are very severe for well-intended gun owners trying to follow the law. I wouldn't do it without talking to a lawyer first.
Maybe ask Forest Service Ranger if it is OK or not. Maybe he even doesn't know?
There was a story (Tiger!) about a group of guys going after a man eater at a remote spot in that region.
They were out looking for it when the tiger made a surprise attack from the side. The man was well armed, would have died if not for his companions managing to shoot it while it was jumping him.
While the title and the alleged subject is a man-eating Amur (Siberian) Tiger that was terrorizing a far Eastern village, the real subject is Russia, through the lens of this story. A personal note; much of my ancestry is from Czarist Russia, and what I read, both here and elsewhere, makes me glad that I'm here, not there. An excerpt that should not be a spoiler:
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Vaillant - The Tiger, Excerpts from pp. 73-75
The Chapter starts with a quote by Confucious, comforting a grieving widow and parent, whose father, husband and son were killed by tigers: “Remember tha, my students, Callous government is more ravenous than tigers," and then continues:
BY THE MID-1980S, THE SOVIET UNION HAD BEGUN TO UNRAVEL AS THE pros inefficiencies of central planning began manifesting themselves in painfully obvious ways. However, the country was far too unstable and encumbered by its own history to allow a gradual transition toward a market economy, or the democracy such a transition was supposed to bring about. Mikhail Gorbachev's attempt to open the Soviet Union resembled Pandora's attempt to open her box: there was simply no way to do it gradually. Once that lid was cracked, it blew off altogether. In Russia's case, the walls fell down, too. As the Communist Bloc disintegrated, decades, generations entire lifetimes of frustration, discontent, stifled rage, and raw ambition came boiling out, never to be contained again. The vast majority of Russians were completely unprepared for the ensuing free-for-all....
On Yeltsin's watch, the ignorance of many, combined with the cleverness of a few, allowed for the biggest, fastest, and most egregiously unjust reallocation of wealth and resources in the history of the world. It was klepto-capitalism on a monumental scale, but it wasn't the first time. The Bolsheviks had done something similar under Lenin.
The scale of theft following the October Revolution of 1917 was equally grand for its time, but the motives and methods were even more ruthless. During the heady and violent period following the Revolution, there was a mass pillaging of privately held lands and property....
Under both Lenin and Yeltsin, it was a small elite with close res to the Kremlin who controlled these acquisitions and identified the beneficiaries.
John Valliant skillfully uses three villagers as foils for the history and sociology of Russia. Two of these were killed by this tiger and one of whom had a major role in killing the tiger.
This book can be read on many levels, that of a nature lover, history buff or as a cultural study. Or all three levels. If the book were only about the tigers hunting villagers, and the tiger hunt,it would have merited about forty pages. The book was gripping and interesting all the way through. I highly recommend this book.
I've read that in Siberia a brown bear will make a point of avoiding an encounter with a tiger. Of course, the tiger is quite a bit larger than a mountain lion.
There was a story (Tiger!) about a group of guys going after a man eater at a remote spot in that region.
They were out looking for it when the tiger made a surprise attack from the side. The man was well armed, would have died if not for his companions managing to shoot it while it was jumping him.
I second the notion that being armed won't necessarily protect you from a big cat attack.
Also, no man alive could possibly fight off a mountain lion if it were really intent on killing you. Hell, you couldn't even fight off a wild boar with the same intent.
Guns don't guarantee safety, but they can give you a chance.
Think of it this way - if you have a gun and don't use it, you're not going to say "too bad I have a gun on me even though I have no use for it", but if you need a gun and don't have it, your last thought might be "damn I wish I had brought a gun".
In polar bear country people go out armed as a matter of routine for a reason.
They may have already. One was killed on a Connecticut highway.
As for coyotes, the ones in the East are very large and sometimes hunt in packs. They appear to either be evolving into proto-wolves or may have some wolf hybridization.
Many of the eastern coyotes have interbred with both Canadian grey wolves and (to a lesser extent) domestic dogs. That's why they are so much bigger than the coyotes we have west of the Mississippi.
Right now I think the increasing number of mountain lion sightings east of the Mississippi outside of Florida still represent animals wandering in from the west - but once enough have wandered in, a breeding population WILL eventually establish itself (just as what happened with the coyotes). Life finds a way!
Anyway, imo bear spray is a better way to survive. Not many of us can aim at a pouncing mountain lion in time and get a kill shot and if you have dogs or kids around, you could kill or injure them. I also think you can get in trouble with the law for shooting at a lion or bear in California, even if you say it's charging you, how can you prove it?
I think in this case the injuries to the first person attacked would be sufficient proof that it was necessary to shoot the cat.
I agree that in the VAST majority of cases bear spray (possibly coupled with a large, fixed-blade knife for backup) is all that is needed (if anything is needed at all, which it almost never is) - but I think this case was the one-in-a-million case where a gun of a sufficient caliber was what was required. it's truly unfortunate that the brothers weren't carrying one. But then, you or I could be killed today by a meteorite - they have hit a few people in the past - but I certainly don't walk around all the time wearing a helmet to protect myself from that danger!
I think the only real lesson to draw from this is that Nature can sometimes be a real female dog.
I am telling you, you cannot carry a loaded firearm in California anywhere except your property. I think camping is considered your property around your tent?
Hunters can carry certain rifles with a tag.
The type of firearm you would need to stop a mountain lion at close range is illegal to carry loaded in California on a hike.
Heck, I am in Nevada and have a CCW and do not carry a pistol that could take out a lion or bear, they are too heavy. I suppose I could keep shooting it with my .22 conceal carry if I was lucky enough to have an arm free and could aim, but idk. I guess this would make the case for a semi-auto 9mm, but I just don't like semi-auto and wouldn't carry it hiking regularily....
Yes, I know .22 is barely sufficient as concealed carry, but its the only small revolver that I can handle with ease. Now bear spray, I always have....scary men, dog fights, mountain lions...that is what I'm counting on....fingers crossed...
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You really cannot get a CCW in California from what I understand. Supposedly, some counties will issue them, but I doubt it…
I have one … and I know some others on this forum in California who do as well. I don’t carry, concealed or open, never have except in my military service years, but I have kept it so I could travel with a firearm in vehicle.
I’ve owned rifles, handguns and shotguns since I was about eight … still do. Locked up and I’m not sure where the key is anymore, been so long since I cared to even check them. Only used for hunting back in my youth.
Hiking in cougar country? Good dog and a good knife is all that’s necessary.
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