IL fiscal crisis (Madison: middle-class, home, public school)

[sub]

Looks like we have an oversimplification of what's going on.
Intelligent, educated Californians are flooding into the rest of the West for various reasons.
Extremist politics and not wanting to pay some arbitrary premium to live in mediocrity being among those reasons.
Yes, some are being replaced by those who can "compete", but many don't care if they could or not. Some might be replaced by high-tech heroes, but unskilled labor probably represents a larger number.
A ridiculous number of California expats are finding their way to the Ozarks of all places. They might outnumber the natives before too long. Seriously.
California is a lost cause.
Another huge contributor to Ozark growth? Chicagoland and Illinois in general. It used to just be retirees, but now it's all age groups. They come from Minnesota, Iowa, and Wisconsin as well.

This dismissal that these are just people who "can't compete" strikes at the notion that liberals have largely abandoned the middle class and couldn't care less about their plight. The ideal world of a progressive seems to resemble that of the Hunger Games.

I like cities more than most suburbs, so what I'm about to say isn't what you think.
Suburbs prop up cities and have kept them relevant while cities are preoccupied with shooting themselves in the foot over and over. For a long time and is still true to a large extent, cities simply provide the name and the culture for a region. That stuff is important, no doubt, otherwise people might have just as easily moved back to small towns and farms... which might not have been a bad thing.

[guidoLaMoto]

Originally Posted by brrabbit

And I've read that Walker is killing universities here in WI.

--Written, no doubt by an over paid UW prof or a "journalist"/Dem propagandist..



Besides, graffiti defacing walls in a Milwaukee ghetto don't count as serious documents.

[damba]

Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto

--Written, no doubt by an over paid UW prof or a "journalist"/Dem propagandist..



Besides, graffiti defacing walls in a Milwaukee ghetto don't count as serious documents.

Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by sub

Looks like we have an oversimplification of what's going on.
Intelligent, educated Californians are flooding into the rest of the West for various reasons.
Extremist politics and not wanting to pay some arbitrary premium to live in mediocrity being among those reasons.
Yes, some are being replaced by those who can "compete", but many don't care if they could or not. Some might be replaced by high-tech heroes, but unskilled labor probably represents a larger number.
A ridiculous number of California expats are finding their way to the Ozarks of all places. They might outnumber the natives before too long. Seriously.
California is a lost cause.
Another huge contributor to Ozark growth? Chicagoland and Illinois in general. It used to just be retirees, but now it's all age groups. They come from Minnesota, Iowa, and Wisconsin as well.

This dismissal that these are just people who "can't compete" strikes at the notion that liberals have largely abandoned the middle class and couldn't care less about their plight. The ideal world of a progressive seems to resemble that of the Hunger Games.

I like cities more than most suburbs, so what I'm about to say isn't what you think.
Suburbs prop up cities and have kept them relevant while cities are preoccupied with shooting themselves in the foot over and over. For a long time and is still true to a large extent, cities simply provide the name and the culture for a region. That stuff is important, no doubt, otherwise people might have just as easily moved back to small towns and farms... which might not have been a bad thing.

Completely backwards. Cities, and the economies and jobs of cities, and the financial engines of cities support suburbs. Suburbs wouldn't exist without them.



And you seem to think the people living and working in these cities aren't middle class. The vast majority are.



Also, you're incorrect on the world of the progressive. You're describing the right wing. Everyone for themselves, no social safety nets, "free" markets (which aren't free, just loaded for the ruling class), no environmental protections. Dog eat dog. If you aren't doing well, it's because you didn't work hard or smart enough. If you are sick, well, not my responsibility to help you. Classic right winging thinking is the Hunger Games (along with exploitation of colonies)... it's like you didn't actually know what the story is about.

[guidoLaMoto]

Originally Posted by damba

Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

It can't be-- there would be more happy people in the world.

[guidoLaMoto]

Originally Posted by timberline742

Completely backwards. Cities, and the economies and jobs of cities, and the financial engines of cities support suburbs. Suburbs wouldn't exist without them.



And you seem to think the people living and working in these cities aren't middle class. The vast majority are.



Also, you're incorrect on the world of the progressive. You're describing the right wing. Everyone for themselves, no social safety nets, "free" markets (which aren't free, just loaded for the ruling class), no environmental protections. Dog eat dog. If you aren't doing well, it's because you didn't work hard or smart enough. If you are sick, well, not my responsibility to help you. Classic right winging thinking is the Hunger Games (along with exploitation of colonies)... it's like you didn't actually know what the story is about.

Better review your old sociology books: Chicago School-- theory of concentric urban development-- suburbs are part of the urban environment and not actually separate entities. And...


America does not have upper (royalty) middle (bourgeois, shop owners) and lower (peasant) classes like '
Europe had. We have upper (old money, maybe not even rich anymore), working and lower classes. A working class person who wins a multi-million dollar lottery or studies hard to become a high earning professional does not automatically become part of the upper class. It's a matter of up-bringing and attitudes.


Remember, the American Ideal was really to get out from under the heel of royalty and to live for yourself, not turning over 3/4 of your crop every year as rent to the Baron or Count. Of course, now, thanks to the Tax&Spend Dems & RINOs, it's almost July before Americans start keeping their own salaries each year.


We workers finally have someone in office who is looking out for us.

[Empidonax]

Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto

Remember, the American Ideal was really to get out from under the heel of royalty and to live for yourself, not turning over 3/4 of your crop every year as rent to the Baron or Count.

Thank goodness for stuff like the Louisiana Purchase, a government project that enabled many "independent" mavericks to "live for themselves."

Of course, now, thanks to the Tax&Spend Dems & RINOs, it's almost July before Americans start keeping their own salaries each year.

Bologna. Taxation in the states is among the lowest in the developed world.

We workers finally have someone in office who is looking out for us.

Uh huh.

[guidoLaMoto]

Originally Posted by Empidonax

Bologna. Taxation in the states is among the lowest in the developed world. .

In round numbers:


Average income $50G


SS tax 12% (remember your employer is paying half "for you") --$6G



Medicare tx --$1G



RE tax- average in the range of $6G (renters are paying it via rents)


Fed income tax -- $4G


IL state income tax--$2G


That leaves you $39G, which you spend & save only a negligible amount, of which 10% is IL sales tax--$3.5G


Rough total tax (not counting tollway fees, auto licenses, etc-- $22,500 or 45% of your salary--


45% of 365 is 164--ie-- average Illinoisian isn't working for himself until after June 13th each year.


Americans may be taxed the least in the world, but it's still too much.

[ccjarider]

Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto

Americans may be taxed the least in the world, but it's still too much.

Correct.

The progressive assumes tax money is a most efficient use. He/she continues to ignore common sense and observation to acknowledge how humanity really works.

The Progressive loves to throw out the EU and heavy hand of gov't control as proof of utopian society. It's baloney. The EU would not exist today without US benevolence of during the 20th century. EU became a socialist progressive monster because US took over military maintenance for last 70 plus yrs. The EU is living on borrowed time and cannot continue to exist in it's present form.

IL, CA, NJ and NY are examples of bad, progressive brainwashing run amock. Millions suffer because of these failures. The state I live in is on it's way to same fate.

I hope WI folks are smarter.

[ram2]

Originally Posted by Empidonax

The United States aggressively helped to rebuild Nagasaki and poured lots of money into the effort; not so much with Detroit. Interesting, eh?




It also helped that a lot of individual people in Chicagoland actually support liberal values: individual freedoms, collective safety net, etc. Chicagoland isn't Democratic simply or primarily because of machine politics.

In the late 1940s, Detroit did not need rebuilding. Democrats have been running Detroit since 1962. Why did the Dems let the city go downhill?

I notice there is no mention of Chicago's south side. Not all of Chicago is sweet smelling roses.