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I think Embiid should get it. He is a more complete player with his defense and when they played head to head the other night Embiid was by far the better player in that game. I know one game.
I haven't really heard much buzz around him, except in the immediate aftermath of that game. Embiid had been waiting for that game, I think they have only met a few times over the last couple of seasons.
The biggest reason not to give to Jokic another MVP that it puts him the company with Bird/Wilt/Russell before the guy has made an NBA Finals. It's a good as year as any to give to Embiid........but that one game aside, I think he is stuck right now with the perception he is the 2nd best player at his position. Even with his monster year, Jokic is still upping his efficiency and play making.
So far this year, Jokic has the 4th highest PER ever in a single season. The record holder? Jokic's MVP season last year.
I haven't really heard much buzz around him, except in the immediate aftermath of that game. Embiid had been waiting for that game, I think they have only met a few times over the last couple of seasons.
The biggest reason not to give to Jokic another MVP that it puts him the company with Bird/Wilt/Russell before the guy has made an NBA Finals. It's a good as year as any to give to Embiid........but that one game aside, I think he is stuck right now with the perception he is the 2nd best player at his position. Even with his monster year, Jokic is still upping his efficiency and play making.
So far this year, Jokic has the 4th highest PER ever in a single season. The record holder? Jokic's MVP season last year.
I read the last time a player got 3 MVP's in a row was Bird. I like Jokic but not sure he is on that level. Jordan and Lebron never got 3 in a row. Problem with the MVP is its a regular season award. They give it out before the finals. I really think that the MVP should be for the entire season not just the regular season. Giannis won the two years before he won the finals and did not get it when he won the championship. The elite players are judged by their championships.
I read the last time a player got 3 MVP's in a row was Bird. I like Jokic but not sure he is on that level. Jordan and Lebron never got 3 in a row. Problem with the MVP is its a regular season award. They give it out before the finals. I really think that the MVP should be for the entire season not just the regular season. Giannis won the two years before he won the finals and did not get it when he won the championship. The elite players are judged by their championships.
He's not on that level until he wins a championship. It will be interesting to see if people consider that when voting for the award this year.
The Nuggets have a good team this year. Good shooting, depth issues should subside a bit when rotations shorten in the playoffs. But can they defend?
He's not on that level until he wins a championship. It will be interesting to see if people consider that when voting for the award this year.
The Nuggets have a good team this year. Good shooting, depth issues should subside a bit when rotations shorten in the playoffs. But can they defend?
Championships are hard to measure. Patrick ewing, charles barkley, malone, stockton doesnt have one, but adam morrison has 2. If lebron was in chicago and had pippen as a sidekick, he would have gotten more rings than jordan. No one wants to go to cleveland, while Chicago is at least a mid market team. Had jordan or kobe been in Cleveland their while careers they probably would not win 1 ring. The only reason lebron won at Cleveland once was cause the nba threw so many first picks at them so they got kyrie, bennett, and wiggins so they traded wiggins and bennett for love. Had that not happened lebron would have not come back.
Denver, with jokic, you have to factor the altitude. It does affect a player. If he was in another city, he would probably average more stats and be even more efficient. And its a small market team and its cold. If jokic was in la, he would have had a championship already.
Championships are hard to measure. Patrick ewing, charles barkley, malone, stockton doesnt have one, but adam morrison has 2. If lebron was in chicago and had pippen as a sidekick, he would have gotten more rings than jordan. No one wants to go to cleveland, while Chicago is at least a mid market team. Had jordan or kobe been in Cleveland their while careers they probably would not win 1 ring. The only reason lebron won at Cleveland once was cause the nba threw so many first picks at them so they got kyrie, bennett, and wiggins so they traded wiggins and bennett for love. Had that not happened lebron would have not come back.
Denver, with jokic, you have to factor the altitude. It does affect a player. If he was in another city, he would probably average more stats and be even more efficient. And its a small market team and its cold. If jokic was in la, he would have had a championship already.
None are consecutive 3X MVPs though. Basketball reference has Jokic with like a 68% chance of winning the MVP vs. 32% for the rest of the field, that's how strong the analytic argument is as we approach the All-Star break. The history argument is different. I am glad we are past the "worst MVP choice ever" rhetoric we heard after he won his first one, and how now the talk is whether such regular season dominance is what the award is really about...........cause one guy has dominated the regular season for three years running.
The Nuggets like to play offensive minded ball because of the altitude. Those guys live there and are used to it, their opponents are not, so running them off the court over 4 quarters is the Nuggets long term identity.......which on the surface would make them seem a poor fit for a guy like Jokic, who has below average run/jump athleticism. Of course, when you can lead the break yourself, fire full court passes like a QB, and have the vision to create instant offense with your passing even when standing still, it still works.
I'm not sure about the LA guess, but the Nuggets last year would have had a losing records without him. He has healthy talent around him now, I am excited to see what they do with it. "DNP-staying fresh for the games that matter," is something Jokic is doing this year that he didn't in years past. If anything takes the MVP from him, it may be that. Imagine the "stat nightmare" if he is averaging 25/11/10 going into the last couple of games of the season and only plays one quarter, or one half, and loses the historical stat line.......so still taking the under on averaging the triple-double, but looking rather foolish for it right now!
Imagine the "stat nightmare" if he is averaging 25/11/10 going into the last couple of games of the season and only plays one quarter, or one half, and loses the historical stat line.......so still taking the under on averaging the triple-double, but looking rather foolish for it right now!
There is 22 games left in nuggets season and jokic has to average 9.36 assists per game to get 10 assists per game. There might be a chance where the last 2 games where he sits out when even if they lose, they will still be the number 1 seed, and still have a better record than the eastern conference 1st seed, and have homecourt advantage for the whole championship run.
Just to keep him fresh for the playoffs and avoid injury. If so he can average even less than 9.36 assists per game.
He is making me a believer. Look at his line last night against a good Cavs team with the twin towers. 24 pts.- 18 rebs. -13 assists. He's killing 'em and winning games to boot.
I think the problem is this:
Jokic should not have won his first MVP. Giannis was still clearly the best player that year. That was backlash basically saying until he wins a ring he wont get another regardless of how great he is in the regular season. So if things had gone the way they should have, Jokic would be winning his second MVP this year, and this time he actually deserves it. He's putting up monster stats on a squad that's got the best record in the West even though they have not had their two other stars healthy all year. If everything holds as is, he will win both the rebounding title and the assist title as well. I cant remember the last time that happened...I think Wilt won a passing title way back when. Not to mention that he's also averaging a triple double as the OP asked. But unlike Westbrook, you dont get the feeling that he's padding his stats and hurting his team in pursuit of his triple double (like when Westbrook would push Steven Adams out of the way to get a rebound).
But unlike Westbrook, you dont get the feeling that he's padding his stats and hurting his team in pursuit of his triple double (like when Westbrook would push Steven Adams out of the way to get a rebound).
Westbrook was having his team mates block out for him when the other team is shooting a free throw, so the rebound goes to him, and he steals rebounds from his team mates, plus steven adams sometimes give rebounds to westbrook for free. And sometimes on defense westbrook will leave his man open to shoot the 3, trying to position himself for the rebound. Sometimes his teamates will switch to his man, sometimes they dont.
Jokic on the other hand doesnt do any of this. Westbrook should have never left okc, im sure they would have gave him a max deal until hes 38 or something like that just like lillard, for being a first ballot hall of famer and sticking around in a small market team for so long and being loyal. It wouldn't have mattered if he is washed out now, okc would have paid him. Now in his situation next year maybe some team will give him a veterans minnimum.
Westbrook was having his team mates block out for him when the other team is shooting a free throw, so the rebound goes to him, and he steals rebounds from his team mates, plus steven adams sometimes give rebounds to westbrook for free. And sometimes on defense westbrook will leave his man open to shoot the 3, trying to position himself for the rebound. Sometimes his teamates will switch to his man, sometimes they dont.
Jokic on the other hand doesnt do any of this. Westbrook should have never left okc, im sure they would have gave him a max deal until hes 38 or something like that just like lillard, for being a first ballot hall of famer and sticking around in a small market team for so long and being loyal. It wouldn't have mattered if he is washed out now, okc would have paid him. Now in his situation next year maybe some team will give him a veterans minnimum.
The free throw miss rebounds were worth something like 1-2 extra rebounds a night for Russ in those years IIRC, so yeah, they mattered as he chased the stat. Time was a PG ripping down a rebound was a great sign a fast break was coming, but with modern floor balance and so many long rebounds off of 3-pointers, it isn't what it once was.
It's odd that Jokic didn't enter any of the last three years as the MVP favorite. Year 1 it was supposed to be Embiid, but he got injured and Jokic pulled ahead. Last year was supposed to be Steph's year, then he got hurt and his stats came back to earth. Joel was right there again, but Jokic's year was historically good. This year, it was supposed to be Doncic, but his team isn't good enough, or Tatum, but while his stats are great, they aren't historically sublime. Watching Jokic destroy his former teammate Mason Plumlee was fun last night (highlights only ). A few years ago, Plumlee was the guy the Nuggets would sub-in for Jokic as a defensive specialist. Now Plumlee looked like tissue paper against him, and it certainly wasn't lack of effort.
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The free throw miss rebounds were worth something like 1-2 extra rebounds a night for Russ in those years IIRC, so yeah, they mattered as he chased the stat. Time was a PG ripping down a rebound was a great sign a fast break was coming, but with modern floor balance and so many long rebounds off of 3-pointers, it isn't what it once was. 
). A few years ago, Plumlee was the guy the Nuggets would sub-in for Jokic as a defensive specialist. Now Plumlee looked like tissue paper against him, and it certainly wasn't lack of effort.