Are we running out of electricity in the Northwest???

[509]

Originally Posted by rkcarguy

I was mandated to install electric heat pumps and electric water heater by the state in our last home build. No natural gas here, and propane doesn't "gasify" from it's liquid form below ~20*F. Power isn't always on for a propane tank heater when it's cold. With the anti-natural gas stance of state and local gov't, new services aren't being extended hardly anywhere. So now I get a message saying to use less electricity. Really makes me want to run out and buy an electric car, and I can't wait until the snake river dams come out. Can't fix stupid.

Here is the BPA report from today:

https://transmission.bpa.gov/Busines...d/baltwg3.aspx

Notice NO electricity generated by wind.

Notice that the PNW has IMPORTED electricity during this time period, to keep the grid from going down.

Looking at California electric generation they are ALSO importing electricity.

So the only thing keeping the PNW grid from going down right now is probably BC Hydro.

Take the Snake River Dams out as Biden, Inslee, Cantwell are proposing and you have a real crises.

[dozerbear]

Originally Posted by 509

Didn't they close a nuclear plant in western Washington in the 1980's??

Yes units #3 and 5 were supposed to be built at Satsop. The first unit (WNP-3) was over 75% complete when put on hold in 1983, and WNP-5 was cancelled in 1982. had both units been completed, they would be generating 2,480 MW of power for western Washington. But, they are still almost completely dependent on electricity generated over here in the eastern half of the state.

It's also interesting to note that those windmills only really work in the spring, when snowmelt has our dams in the Columbia system running near full nameplate capacity. But hydropower isn't "green".

[StealthRabbit]

Originally Posted by dozerbear

Yes units #3 and 5 were supposed to be built at Satsop. ....

It's also interesting to note that those windmills only really work in the spring, when snowmelt has our dams in the Columbia system running near full nameplate capacity. But hydropower isn't "green".

I am pretty amused that Hydropower is considered GREEN in much of the world.

New Zealand is very much into promoting their Green Hydropower.

Not woke, yet...

[Arktikos]

Originally Posted by dozerbear

... But hydropower isn't "green".

It can be. Certainly is in the sense that no carbon is generated, and the process is sustainable. In SE Alaska we tap high mountain lakes to generate power for relatively small communities. Damning salmon waterways is a no no!

[CrazyDonkey]

Originally Posted by rantiquity

Then what is the solution? Nuclear maybe....no not maybe it has to be done.

I think solar, wind, hydro, and nuclear power should be part of the solution - all are carbon-emission free, except for building the infrastructure. We need to eliminate coal.


I think a lot of the resistance to nuclear power is due to distrust of the nuclear industry.

[rantiquity]

Originally Posted by CrazyDonkey

I think solar, wind, hydro, and nuclear power should be part of the solution - all are carbon-emission free, except for building the infrastructure. We need to eliminate coal.

I think a lot of the resistance to nuclear power is due to distrust of the nuclear industry.

Wind power depends on the sun...in some areas that is limited during the cloudy winter months. Its is estimated that about 300k birds are killed each year.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart...ill-180948154/

Solar is taking away land needed for other uses. It is estimated that around 6K birds are killed each year.
https://www.sciencealert.com/this-so...0-birds-a-year

Mistrust over nuclear power plants are misguided. There has no death in the US from any nuclear reactor.
The Ukrainian nuclear power plant was built by the Russians. Their safety and building practices has always been in question.
The power plant in Japan didn't fail due to the earthquake. It failed due to the tsunami. Building a plant prone to water was Japan's fault not the plant itself.
Now your comment about eliminating coal....did you know China and India even after signing onto the Paris toothless climate deal still is building coal power plants? China is allowed to build two coal power plants a week.
https://www.npr.org/2023/03/02/11604...ies-report-fin

[dozerbear]

Originally Posted by Arktikos

It can be. Certainly is in the sense that no carbon is generated, and the process is sustainable. In SE Alaska we tap high mountain lakes to generate power for relatively small communities. Damning salmon waterways is a no no!

You and I know that hydropower is as green as you can get, but try convincing most Western Washington liberals of that. Good luck.

Originally Posted by rantiquity

Wind power depends on the sun...in some areas that is limited during the cloudy winter months. Its is estimated that about 300k birds are killed each year
.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart...ill-180948154/

Solar is taking away land needed for other uses. It is estimated that around 6K birds are killed each year.
https://www.sciencealert.com/this-so...0-birds-a-year

Not to mention a massive number of Hoary bats. Bats, for those who may not know are vital to our ecosystem, each bat eats up to 6,000 insects a night. They are however slow to reproduce like the raptors that wind turbines are also killing in large numbers.

Originally Posted by rantiquity

Mistrust over nuclear power plants are misguided. There has no death in the US from any nuclear reactor.
The Ukrainian nuclear power plant was built by the Russians. Their safety and building practices has always been in question.
The power plant in Japan didn't fail due to the earthquake. It failed due to the tsunami. Building a plant prone to water was Japan's fault not the plant itself.

This is correct. Fukushima Daiichi survived the quake with almost no damage, as did every other nuclear plant in the country. Fukushima Daini, 6 miles south of Daiichi, suffered no damage from the quake or tsunami and shut down automatically as designed with no problems. The problem was the seawall at Fukushima Daiichi wasn't built tall enough to stop the tsunami that occurred after the quake, which drowned the plant's backup generators, which were to provide backup cooling in case of a failure of the primary reactor cooling system.

Originally Posted by rantiquity

Now your comment about eliminating coal....did you know China and India even after signing onto the Paris toothless climate deal still is building coal power plants? China is allowed to build two coal power plants a week.
https://www.npr.org/2023/03/02/11604...ies-report-fin

China alone added 17,000 MW of coal fired generation in the first half of 2023 alone, and has an additional 243,000 MW under construction or permitted to start construction.
https://globalenergymonitor.org/pres...missions-peak/

Unless your name happens to be John Kerry, you know the Chinese will continue to lie about any environmental commitments they make and will keep doing what they see as best for China, to hell with the rest of the world.

[rantiquity]

Originally Posted by dozerbear

Unless your name happens to be John Kerry, you know the Chinese will continue to lie about any environmental commitments they make and will keep doing what they see as best for China, to hell with the rest of the world.

Having been to China five times and witness smog generated by burning mass amounts of coal...yes its the hell with the rest of world. I was in western China in December a few years ago and witness snow that was black from homes and industry burning coal. You see a lot of Chinese wearing mask because of the coal dust and industrial pollution...long before Covid.

[Arktikos]

Originally Posted by 509

I have owned a off-grid home for 25 years, my solar output DROPS IN HALF during the summer, compared to sunny cold days in winter...

Perhaps the panels are better oriented to capture the lower angle sun during winter?

Or you live in a hot climate. At 77F or below, there is no penalty with warm temps over cold for solar panels.

[rkcarguy]

509, I tried to PM you.
I found some interesting data, just what I could online so YMMV.
Apparently due to California's "green mandate" they are required to pay triple for wind and solar produced KWH. The dams are locked into a low KMH price for decades and typically run at a surplus of energy unless its super hot/cold. This leaves the windfarms at idle almost all the time IF there is wind when you need them. So, if the snake river dams come out, this creates a "hole" in power capacity to be filled of which Californian providers must pay 3x the rate for. See where we are heading with this and who benefits?