Possible Move to Washington State (Seattle, Tacoma: rental, house, to buy)
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That is good to know. I am open to small towns as long it is not too far from the city. I will look into surrounding towns.
What does it mean when people say that Joint Base Lewis-McChord AFB slows down I-5 North between Olympia and Tacoma by one hour even if it is only 32 miles apart?
For an army base, I would think that it is off the freeway down the road like most are.
It isn't base traffic per se. And even if the base closed it wouldn't solve the problem.
If you look at a map you will see that where I-5 passes by Lewis-McCord it is essentially passing through a very narrow isthmus that is bordered by Puget Sound to the northwest and the massive Army/Air base to the southwest. Study the map, you will find ZERO other through highways or even residential surface streets that pass through this same patch of land. You do have the town of Dupont at the southern end of this stretch, and Steilacoom at the northern end. But there are frankly no alternative routes through this area other than I-5. I know, I've tried. You wind up in a maze of surface streets with stop signs that don't go through to where you actually want to go. You could theoretically bypass the base by taking country roads to the east of it, but that is a LONG ways around.
So I-5 through this 30 mile stretch of land is essentially a 30 mile bridge that has no alternative routes or highways which means that every bit of long distance and local traffic passing through here has to take I-5.
Further north in Tacoma and Seattle, and further south in Olympia there are, indeed, alternative highways and surface streets that absorb some of the local and through traffic. But not through this particular stretch.
I would like for my area to have good access to medical care because that is always good for long term as we age. My husband does have a congenital heart condition.
Washington has sank near the bottom of the 50 states for availability and quality of care, all the "circumstances" have made the state unattractive to medical professionals who can more-or-less cherry pick where they want to live and work. Our hospital has an entire hallway of positions open offering hiring bonuses etc etc. Strangely, few want to move to a place that is top 5% in the USA for cost of living and bottom 4% for crime and safety with new taxes legislated every minute.
I'm neck deep in the fallout right now after my severe vaccine injury, with critical references into neurology, internal medicine, pulmonology, and hematology since April, and just finally got to see hematology this Monday. The rest are July, End of August, and October! I did get into Pulmonology in May because they had to determine if my aortic aneurysm put me at immediate risk of heart failure or not. We've tried everyone in network between here and Seattle, got nothing available sooner.
"Go to the ER if you experience (fill in the blank) in the meantime" is not very comforting.
All this said, I'm not dissuading you from your move, but I would deal with getting healthcare just like a job and a house, get it all lined up (not just a verbal "yes were taking patients", transfer all your records sign everything, get that spot before its full!) BEFORE you commit to the move. People are posting everywhere that they are new here and can't find anyone taking new patients.
Shouldn't Olympia be less liberal due to the huge military base there? I know military families tend to be more conservative.
These are my reasons for wanting to live in Washington State. I do not know where because I do not want cities too small while being concerned about affordability in Seattle.
I feel that suburbs outside Seattle, Bremerton, Tacoma, and Olympia would be my best choices.
Olympia is right after Seattle in terms of being left-leaning. Visit for yourself and you'll see that it's super LGBTB/vegan/artist friendly and has an almost Berkeley or Santa Cruz vibe to it.
Tacoma is actually patchy and a lot Pierce County has deep red pockets of MAGA. Bremerton has strong military vibes. Visit both and see for yourself.
We were looking very closely at Tacoma, but coming from Oakland it had some of the same problems we were looking to avoid (ie. crime, traffic, poor city leadership, etc). Ultimately, we wound up in southern unincorporated King County and are very happy with our decision.
Many people from the Eastside and the northern parts of Seattle wouldn't dare venture into areas like Kent, Des Moines, Lakeland Hills, etc but there are some really nice homes with convenient access to I-5, SeaTac, and both Seattle and Tacoma, but you really need to do your homework, take a look at the crime maps, and get a sense of the area because it's sort of a hodgepodge of strip malls/commercial strips/job centers/woodsy areas with lakes/mountain/Sound views.
Ranking them in terms of most most upscale/expensive to least upscale/expensive:
1. Bellevue WAY AHEAD
2-4 Tacoma, Everett, and Olympia basically tied. Depends on the specific neighborhood
5. Bremerton
Ranking them in terms of liberal vs. conservative
1. Bellevue
2. Olympia
3-4. Everett and Tacoma basically tied
5. Bremerton
Bellevue is basically at the epicenter of the Seattle tech industry and moneyed class and is priced accordingly. It is literally dripping in money.
Everett was once a separate Navy town (still is a Navy town) but that has basically become absorbed in the Borg that is the greater Seattle area and so has become as much of a bedroom town for Seattle as a Navy home port. Most people who don't live there find little reason to visit. I would guess that few residents of the greater Puget Sound region have ever actually visited downtown Everett.
Tacoma is a much larger separate city that would be much more prominent were it not so close to Seattle. It is basically the Fort worth to Seattle's Dallas and about the same exact distance away. It is quite an attractive city with a pleasant downtown and some exceptionally nice historic neighborhoods and suburbs of its own (like Gig Harbor) and it also has rough areas like any other big city. I actually like Tacoma quite a bit. It has a lot to offer and would rarely give you a reason to need to go to Seattle.
Olympia is a more sleepy government town with a reputation of being more white collar and liberal than Tacoma. I've spent less time there because if you aren't from there and don't have business in Olympia there is little reason to actually stop. I find it kind of boring. It is kind of similar to Bellingham but with the state government swapped out for the big university, which makes it more sedate and boring than Bellingham. Evergreen State College is tiny and way out on the edge of town so Olympia doesn't have that college town feel like Bellingham.
Bremerton is a former mill town and Navy town that has been slowly gaining more attention as a bedroom community for Seattle due to the advent of fast passenger ferries a few decades ago. But it is still kind of rough around the edges. And there is frankly not all that much to actually do in Bremerton without taking a LONG drive around the bay to Tacoma, or taking a ferry into Seattle. If that's what you want, fine. But if you are the kind of person who likes to say, explore new eclectic ethnic restaurants you will find it lacking compared to any of the cities on the other side.
If it were me and I was in your exact shoes with the life circumstances that you describe, I'd pick Tacoma and look for a home in the older historic neighborhoods in the north end near University of Puget Sound or west over by University Place. For the more suburbanish shoreline type of place I'd pick University Place over Gig Harbor just to avoid the daily bridge traffic and tolls. And there are other nice shoreline communities near Tacoma that don't require the bridge like Dash Point. Tacoma has lots of really interesting older neighborhoods. You can get more for your dollar there than you ever could in Bellevue and it is more of a stand-alone community. Pierce County does trend more conservative than either King or Snohomish counties where Bellevue and Everett lie. But the city of Tacoma proper will be as you describe that you seek...trending liberal and supportive of diversity, etc. It is mostly the rural parts of the county outside Tacoma that tilt the county more conservative. Pierce County has a population of 925,000 of which only 215,000 lies in Tacoma proper.
Last edited by texasdiver; 06-23-2023 at 05:01 PM..
Again, it just depends what you're looking for. The smaller towns may be more affordable, but also a little more conservative. It would be good to explore a little more what quality of life means for you.
JBLM is right ON the freeway, in fact it spans across the freeway. So yeah it has an impact on traffic. Lots of military housing surrounding the base.
Ranking them in terms of most most upscale/expensive to least upscale/expensive:
1. Bellevue WAY AHEAD
2-4 Tacoma, Everett, and Olympia basically tied. Depends on the specific neighborhood
5. Bremerton
Ranking them in terms of liberal vs. conservative
1. Bellevue
2. Olympia
3-4. Everett and Tacoma basically tied
5. Bremerton
Bellevue is basically at the epicenter of the Seattle tech industry and moneyed class and is priced accordingly. It is literally dripping in money.
Everett was once a separate Navy town (still is a Navy town) but that has basically become absorbed in the Borg that is the greater Seattle area and so has become as much of a bedroom town for Seattle as a Navy home port. Most people who don't live there find little reason to visit. I would guess that few residents of the greater Puget Sound region have ever actually visited downtown Everett.
Tacoma is a much larger separate city that would be much more prominent were it not so close to Seattle. It is basically the Fort worth to Seattle's Dallas and about the same exact distance away. It is quite an attractive city with a pleasant downtown and some exceptionally nice historic neighborhoods and suburbs of its own (like Gig Harbor) and it also has rough areas like any other big city. I actually like Tacoma quite a bit. It has a lot to offer and would rarely give you a reason to need to go to Seattle.
Olympia is a more sleepy government town with a reputation of being more white collar and liberal than Tacoma. I've spent less time there because if you aren't from there and don't have business in Olympia there is little reason to actually stop. I find it kind of boring. It is kind of similar to Bellingham but with the state government swapped out for the big university, which makes it more sedate and boring than Bellingham. Evergreen State College is tiny and way out on the edge of town so Olympia doesn't have that college town feel like Bellingham.
Bremerton is a former mill town and Navy town that has been slowly gaining more attention as a bedroom community for Seattle due to the advent of fast passenger ferries a few decades ago. But it is still kind of rough around the edges. And there is frankly not all that much to actually do in Bremerton without taking a LONG drive around the bay to Tacoma, or taking a ferry into Seattle. If that's what you want, fine. But if you are the kind of person who likes to say, explore new eclectic ethnic restaurants you will find it lacking compared to any of the cities on the other side.
If it were me and I was in your exact shoes with the life circumstances that you describe, I'd pick Tacoma and look for a home in the older historic neighborhoods in the north end near University of Puget Sound or west over by University Place. For the more suburbanish shoreline type of place I'd pick University Place over Gig Harbor just to avoid the daily bridge traffic and tolls. And there are other nice shoreline communities near Tacoma that don't require the bridge like Dash Point. Tacoma has lots of really interesting older neighborhoods. You can get more for your dollar there than you ever could in Bellevue and it is more of a stand-alone community. Pierce County does trend more conservative than either King or Snohomish counties where Bellevue and Everett lie. But the city of Tacoma proper will be as you describe that you seek...trending liberal and supportive of diversity, etc. It is mostly the rural parts of the county outside Tacoma that tilt the county more conservative. Pierce County has a population of 925,000 of which only 215,000 lies in Tacoma proper.
I agree with much of this analysis.... except I think the OP's current job prospect is in Tumwater, so really there would be no reason to work in Tumwater and live in Tacoma. If the job is in Tumwater, it would be smarter to live down here also and commute to the city for play, if anything.
Regarding politics and quality of life, I would tend to downplay politics as the deciding factor in where to live. Most of our red voters tend to be more libertarian than traditional Republican (whatever that means any more)... And most of our Blue voters are probably not the anarchist protesters that make Evergreen State College famous. They get along fine in mixed company like the rest of us. As a libertarian myself, I get along fine anywhere around here and so do most others. I certainly have lots of friends and clients with both backgrounds.
If all you ever see of these places is a drive-by view, Olympia would not score very high in quality of life, due to the miles of homeless tents along the freeway through Lacey and Olympia (not Tumwater, so far). Now, I happen to know Olympia and Lacey both have some very fine areas to live and work, but they are definitely not presenting themselves well to the public. I think it's a shame and it hasn't always been this way.
I just drove from Rochester to Sea Tac this week, and I will say it was notable that there were NO homeless camps anywhere along the freeway in Tacoma up through Sea Tac. There may be homeless in those areas, but they are not on display the way Olympia's are. And IMHO, that's a positive mark for Tacoma and Pierce County. None of us are better for normalizing the act of driving by or around five miles of homeless camp every day on the freeway.
And even if there may be currently liberal policies to blame, I really don't see homeless camps as a traditionally liberal outcome... I think this is a rather bizarre departure from what used to be normal. And I would know, because I worked for liberal organizations for a decade helping the homeless. The party of compassion has gotten a bit confused about what that means. I can only hope we remember soon.
There are WASHINGTON norms that might catch people off guard who aren't from here... but I think they cross party lines. Lots of people out here like to wear flannel, hunt, fish, hike, camp(for fun, not on the freeway), and that means a lot of both red and blue voters probably own tents and tarps and guns and have boats and campers and trucks to pull them with. So there are hobby and lifestyle preferences that I don't see as political, because I grew up here and know Democrats and Republicans who partake in them. I think we're a pretty middle of the road culture, live and let-live, truly tolerant area where politics would NOT be my first concern. Most people spend their life minding their own business and coping with the weather, and not talking about politics.
That's my two cents. I'm not sure it's well organized, and has been said on other threads, but had not been said on yours yet.
Last edited by Diana Holbrook; 06-23-2023 at 07:29 PM..
To add to post #22, I have lived in Washington for quite awhile now, and for the first time ever, spouse & I do not have a primary care physician & no prospects of finding one. I go to Seattle (a long car trip & ferry ride) for specialist care, and was told by several medical professionals at Swedish (a major medical complex in greater Seattle area for those of you out-of- state) that even Swedish is losing practitioners & unable to replace them. With my current medical issues, this is a very stressful situation. We also had to find a new dentist & veterinarian, and that was difficult as well.
I would never discourage anyone from moving anywhere, but nowdays I would be worried about moving to Western Washington if I needed quality, consistent medical care.
Ranking them in terms of most most upscale/expensive to least upscale/expensive:
1. Bellevue WAY AHEAD
2-4 Tacoma, Everett, and Olympia basically tied. Depends on the specific neighborhood
5. Bremerton
Ranking them in terms of liberal vs. conservative
1. Bellevue
2. Olympia
3-4. Everett and Tacoma basically tied
5. Bremerton
This, although I'd put Tacoma over Bellevue for urbanity and Olympia over Bellevue for liberal vs. conservative. Bremerton is interesting to visit for its more "white working-class old-school PNW" vibe (been to the Rodeo Drive-In several times), but agreed that it's the worst option for OP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana Holbrook
I agree with much of this analysis.... except I think the OP's current job prospect is in Tumwater, so really there would be no reason to work in Tumwater and live in Tacoma. If the job is in Tumwater, it would be smarter to live down here also and commute to the city for play, if anything.
Yeah, before I moved back out the area and got a job in Tacoma, I idly considered living in Tacoma if I were to get a job in Olympia. Now I don't really think that's doable --- the traffic on I-5 is horrible that whole stretch. And Tacoma doesn't really have enough going on to justify that commute. Although it does have some cool neighborhoods.
One exception: if OP plans to be in Seattle frequently on the weekends, being in Tacoma would make that easier.
Yeah, before I moved back out the area and got a job in Tacoma, I idly considered living in Tacoma if I were to get a job in Olympia. Now I don't really think that's doable --- the traffic on I-5 is horrible that whole stretch. And Tacoma doesn't really have enough going on to justify that commute. Although it does have some cool neighborhoods.
One exception: if OP plans to be in Seattle frequently on the weekends, being in Tacoma would make that easier.
My rule of thumb for living in ANY major metro area is to live near your work and commute to your fun.
You can find nice neighborhoods in all of the Puget Sound cities listed. Traffic between Olympia and Everett is horrible on just about any weekday during the work week and public transit is hit and miss. So why subject yourself to constant misery?
Some people wind up forced into long commutes due to life circumstances. Often when one spouse is employed in one town while the other is employed elsewhere and you have to make compromises. But the key word here is compromises. It is a mistake to negotiate yourself into a compromise that you don't have to make.
Olympia does sound nice for a small city. I hope it doesn't feel too small.
One of the jobs I applied for give me the option to pick Tumwater location if not Bremerton.
I live in Olympia, and it’s the smallest town I’ve ever lived in.
It’s large enough in that you don’t need to leave Olympia/Tumwater/Lacey to fulfill nearly all of your daily needs. There are some specific things, like good quality bubble tea or a large Asian market like H-Mart, that I’ll need to drive to Lakewood for. Otherwise, I have found things like health care, shopping, food, etc… pretty easy to access.
There are some infrequent things that pop up where Olympia’s size is inconvenient. For example, a few days ago, my iPhone was completely unresponsive and I was very annoyed at having to drive all the way to Tacoma for the nearest Apple store. I had to renew my passport earlier this year and had to burn a few hours of PTO to drive up to Seattle in the middle of a week day for an appointment. It’s things like that don’t happen often but can inconvenience you. Also, if you travel frequently, being 45 mins to an hour away from SeaTac can be a total pain. That’s probably my biggest complaint.
It is a really nice area though. I like the proximity to the Seattle-Tacoma metro area without the hecticness and congestion. The access to the Olympic Peninsula is amazing.
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