Washington -- the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly (home, live)

[homesinseattle]

Originally Posted by twelvegates

Port Townsend looks nice. Vashon Island seems wonderful to me. Still looking around Olympia. Thanks homesinseattle. And CrazyDonkey -- that's one green place for eastern Washington.

You’re welcome twelvegates. I just think you have to be careful in horse friendly areas, they can be considerably more conservative than you think. I get that that is important to you, it would be to me too. Port Townsend, Vashon, South Whidbey and (selectively) Olympia break that mold, lots of old hippies (and young) and progressives in those areas.

[mayfair]

Originally Posted by homesinseattle

Have you considered Port Townsend area? Liberal vibe, horse properties around. Other possibilities that fit those parameters are the outskirts of Olympia or Vashon Island.

PT is nice but is a long haul from Pilchuck Vet Hospital and like Whidbey, would include a ferry ride (the only other option being a long drive south and then back north through Seattle traffic). The only options within 1-2 hours of Pilchuck would be King, Snohomish, Skagit and parts of Island or possibly south Whatcom County.

Many are comfortable being far away from Pilchuck or WSU and knowing that a farm call or local vet hospital will take care of the issue, or the horse will be put down or not survive. Others want to be near a major vet hospital.

Snohomish/Monroe is a big horse area minutes from Pilchuck. It's got the sasquatchy heavily-forested vibes as well as you head out towards Monroe/Sultan. Like homes said, you'll be getting into conservative areas there.

[homesinseattle]

I'd have a look around Poulsbo too, charming town with acreage on the outskirts that isn't crazy expensive. Your $1.5mil could probably snag you something lovely. Also, pretty easy access to Bainbridge Ferry when you want to come into Seattle.

[rkcarguy]

Originally Posted by Diana Holbrook

rkcarguy - what entity are you saying could deny someone the right to have livestock? Is that county?

I have had a lot of complaints about our state and county government down here, and we do have zoning laws, but I'm not aware of any point where the state or county would have standing to deny a rural property owner - on property zoned rural - that not governed by an HOA or other covenant, from having livestock.

I have seen this in other parts of the country, Wisconsin for example, even in very rural agricultural areas. But not here.

There is no time where we have to ask government permission for having horses. Buildings, yes, maybe, which is bad enough. I have never heard of this in this state, and I spend quite a bit of time looking at farm property here, so please explain!

Yes, it's the county. But they cite wetlands and land use laws that are Federal/Army Corp of Engineers regs.
My lot was R5A, the people that bought it thought the same and didn't check, got a big "no" when they went to file for a permit. Word is, it's due to what watershed you're in and it's salmon. With several species at "threatened" levels in various watersheds, they don't want the runoff from livestock/horses. A relatives estate contained 10 acres of pasture used for cows and hay since the 50's, and one home on a 2 acre homesite. It was annexed into the city and all rezoned commercial, yet the county came in during the wet season when there was standing water and deemed almost all the pasture a "network? of wetlands" costing my relatives millions in lost inheritance. The existing home couldn't even be rebuilt in the same spot without leaving one wall up if something happened to it.

[rkcarguy]

Originally Posted by twelvegates

Wow rkcarguy -- that is exactly the kind of information I would not know if someone didn't clue me in. Thank you!

I actually have thought about Ellensburg. If I'm to believe the online data, they get 9 inches of rainfall to our 16 inches of rainfall in Fort Collins, and 21 inches of snow to our 48 inches. But if I were able to afford irrigation water, that calculus changes.

Here, ONE share of irrigation water costs $250,000, which gives you the "right" to rent water every year. And, if you can't flood irrigate your property, you have to pump irrigate which is wildly inefficient and more expensive because you have to pay for a pumping permit every year. The water companies really don't like pumpers, so they make it as inconvenient and useless as possible.

I will look into irrigation water in the area -- maybe it evens out the natural water deficit between here and there.

I've also thought about the muddy conditions and have spent way too much time trying to retrieve my boots from the muck, even in Fort Collins. I expect its much worse in Washington, but as has been said, that's why the land is so beautiful.

As one drives west of Ellensburg, there is plenty of rivers and streams that converge there near I-90, I would think the water table would be favorable for a well, but yes do look into it in more detail. I think there is probably plenty of runoff from the cascades to provide plenty of water.

It's too bad California sucks your area dry of its water and prices have become so expensive like that.
The 9" of rain doesn't sound bad, last year in the Bellingham area we got over 14" just in November and experienced a 500 year flood.

[twelvegates]

Thanks rkcarguy. More useful information.

For those with horses in areas of Washington that get "average" rain for Washington. I've read that you don't want to put your horses on pasture during the rainy season, and there's no pasture to speak of during the summer months. So when is a pasture useable?

[mayfair]

Originally Posted by twelvegates

Thanks rkcarguy. More useful information.

For those with horses in areas of Washington that get "average" rain for Washington. I've read that you don't want to put your horses on pasture during the rainy season, and there's no pasture to speak of during the summer months. So when is a pasture useable?

Pasture is usable in summer whenever it dries out in spring through the fall rainy season. Most use gravel sacrifice lots for winter to protect the pasture.

Some very drained pastures can take limited use in winter, but full time winter use results in compacted soil and mud and then you'll just get weeds and a poor quality pasture in summer.

[MtnSurfer]

Originally Posted by twelvegates

Thanks rkcarguy. More useful information.

For those with horses in areas of Washington that get "average" rain for Washington. I've read that you don't want to put your horses on pasture during the rainy season, and there's no pasture to speak of during the summer months. So when is a pasture useable?

There is a Huge difference between overall land and pastures in the PNW vs. Colorado. One of the best parts I love about living in the PNW is how green everything is for so long when compared to other parts of the country. Unlike CO, many grasses are green all year. Of course, there are microclimates and things change substantially as one drives east to the drier side of the state. Eastern WA and OR are much more similar to CO's desert climate with brown lands for much of the year. As you drive up the Columbia River Gorge, the geographic changes are perhaps to the most noticeable and stark.

In Western WA, its like a rainforest. So, imagine more shades of green than anywhere you've visited or lived. Even unwatered parks can maintain some green grass year round if using the right kinds of grass seed combinations. So, the problem can actually be too much grass for them to feed on and gaining too much weight as a result. See this article as an example.

The Challenge of Feeding Horses in Rainforest Climates

And this: Pasture grass for Pacific NW

Derek

[Diana Holbrook]

Originally Posted by twelvegates

Thanks rkcarguy. More useful information.

For those with horses in areas of Washington that get "average" rain for Washington. I've read that you don't want to put your horses on pasture during the rainy season, and there's no pasture to speak of during the summer months. So when is a pasture useable?

Our grass is mostly dormant in winter so if there are too many horses on too small a space, they will ruin it. Those with more horses on smaller space, or softer soils that make for a lot of damage from footsteps often keep them on smaller sacrifice areas to protect the grass.

We leave our horses on our pasture year around. Our pasture footing stays pretty firm and we have two on about a 6 acre pasture. The goats and sheep are on about 2 acres. It is not overgrazed, we always have grass on it. That, and good drainage, is the key to it not becoming mud.

There isn't a lot of nutrition in the grass in winter, we feed supplemental hay also, but I prefer them being able to get out and graze every day anyway, rather than standing around bored in a small paddock just to protect the grass. They also then keep it grazed at a good level so that they aren't shocked by it in spring when it starts growing again.



It depends on your horses, the quality of the grass and how much space you end up with. No one answer for that question.

[Diana Holbrook]

Originally Posted by rkcarguy

Yes, it's the county. But they cite wetlands and land use laws that are Federal/Army Corp of Engineers regs.
My lot was R5A, the people that bought it thought the same and didn't check, got a big "no" when they went to file for a permit. Word is, it's due to what watershed you're in and it's salmon. With several species at "threatened" levels in various watersheds, they don't want the runoff from livestock/horses. A relatives estate contained 10 acres of pasture used for cows and hay since the 50's, and one home on a 2 acre homesite. It was annexed into the city and all rezoned commercial, yet the county came in during the wet season when there was standing water and deemed almost all the pasture a "network? of wetlands" costing my relatives millions in lost inheritance. The existing home couldn't even be rebuilt in the same spot without leaving one wall up if something happened to it.

OK That makes some sense. We have wetland buffers as well. That is how wetlands work, they may not be wet all the time, but they hold water in the wet season. Some counties are more restrictive than others on what can be done inside buffer areas. Generally not the kind of area you'd want to keep horses on anyway. There are good flood maps and soil maps that can help us evaluate property for suitability to have horses.