Port Townsend questions (Seattle, Sequim: home, new construction, public schools)
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Don't think living outside of downtown is any better. You will be hard-pressed to find a town
more twisted with corruption and internal politics. Owning a home here is an atrocity to
a sentient being. There's a reason for all the "For Sale" signs right now, and it's not just the Navy.
I think some of you are looking to move here, trying to flee Southern California. Well, guess
what. A lot of Southern Californians are already here. On the city council, in the chamber
of commerce, in every nook and cranny where power was bought with money, they are here.
They're realtors, council members, (sometimes both,) and the Port Townsend
they are creating in their image is the very nightmare you SoCal folks are probably thinking
you're getting away from. It is total 100% neo-liberal (look it up, it's probably not what you
think. I love hippies, myself,) mindset that is just simply based on turning every last square
inch of land in or near this town, into profit for the already wealthy elite here. They say
"buy local" as if they're against box stores. But what they're really doing, is making sure
they have zero competition. I'm not sure who's nuttier. The ultra-conservative religious
people of all faiths who seem to have come here from... Oregon? Utah? Who knows?
or the creepy neo-liberal fascists who seem to want Port Townsend to be more of a fake
organic-plastic tree Legoland of Outdoorsy-ness than anything a real human being
could enjoy. There just seems to be very little "grey area" here; that is, there are very
few people who are just calm, happy, middle-class, working people. It's either griev-
ously overworked hospitality-business folks, the much-maligned poor, the old
money, the new money, and never the twains shall meet.
Just know. If you buy a house here, you will regret it. And you will lose money on it,
no matter what. Because every repair, addition, upgrade... everything you do will be
a maze of fees, licences, bizarre denials of licenses, more fees, more licenses. You will
throw up your hands and take a huge loss just to get out of here and go crawling
back to wherever you came from, thinking, "Wow, we really survived that."
Those same SoCallians who moved in and took over to "pretty the place up" for tourists,
also seem to hate and loathe other SoCallians who move up here, and treat them with the
most bizarre hatred imagineable. The only hatred greater than SoCal on SoCal hatred, is
Old Local Family on New SoCal hatred. It's all very in-grouped unless you have a lot of
money and look like Ken and Barbie dolls in "outdoorsy dress casual wear" all day long.
(Think, L.L. Bean) For people who have had to work hard for a living their whole lives
and don't have much to show for it anymore, we're treated like scum no matter where
we're from. Nothing gets you the cold shoulder like a pair of worked-in jeans
and a pickup truck.
Talk to anyone outside the precious inner social circle about what it's like here,
and you will get much, much different responses than the vultures who own
everything, and marketthe place like it's the answer to every retiree or hiker's dream.
They pour money into PR, and fix up downtown, but yes, real life behind the scenes is
very, very, different. It's terribly disconcerting and upsetting. My wife is ready to take
the kids and go back home (North Dakota,) while I try to sell the house here. We're
trying to stick it out, but it's very hard. People here are so, so unfriendly to anyone
who isn't wealthy or super liberal in a strange kind of way. (Again, I got nothing
against hippies, but these people are... I don't know how to describe them. They're
really not hippies at all. They're more like what I always heard of as "Northeastern
Liberals". They're people with Birkenstocks and all that, but they're very, very
wealthy and very harsh, cold people. These aren't the kind of "hippies" I ever
grew up around. They're just very odd, very clique-ish, very judgmental and
downright mean.)
I find it hard to believe it's so difficult to find out info on the Growlers or anything else,
except that the abovementioned "PR" work seems tireless and endless. One need under-
stand, the people who aren't wealthy birkenstockers, are retired Navy. Which is a whole
nother level of... again, nothing like I've ever seen before. I'm former military myself,
but when I got out, I got OUT. These are people who I guess, maybe it's all they've got
in life is to live in the past, and make that their whole identity. I never understood it
myself, but around here, if one even *thinks* about criticizing what the military is doing
with anything, anywhere, it's either a bunch of birkenstock money screeching, (not be-
cause they're against the juts per se, only that it might deflate their property values,) or
it's a bunch of former military saying you're a traitor and should be shot. It's just truly the
most strange and awful place I've ever lived. I will be glad when it's my former zipcode.
Save The Olympic Peninsula:
[url=http://www.savetheolympicpeninsula.org/]Save The Olympic Peninsula[/url]
Good luck to everyone who thinks they've just GOT to move here. Maybe you'll win
the lottery and things will go well for you here. For the rest, God help us all.
My wife is ready to take
the kids and go back home (North Dakota,) while I try to sell the house here. We're
trying to stick it out, but it's very hard.
Confusing. Are you trying to sell the house and leave or are you trying to stick it out? Port Townsend may not be for you; I'm sure it's very different from North Dakota. It may have been too much of a change, but good luck on your next adventure!
Port Townsend is a nice place to visit, but living in PT is a whole different ballgame.
My advice to you is to seriously consider that your idea of this place
is an illusion based on a desire. Which happens to the best of us.
But wherever you are coming from, probably isn't actually worse
than here. Save your money. Save your health. Save your sanity.
Do NOT move here because you have a vision of pristine beauty,
surrounded by quality, steadfast people. It couldn't be further
from the truth.
Here's wishing you many truly happy, healthy years, and a safe
wonderful place to land, that really IS what you're looking for, not
just the cumuluation of a lot of slick marketing that is nowhere
based on reality.
We visit Port Townsend regularly and really love it. I've never seen cruise ships there but will keep an eye out for them. Honestly, my first thought is it's probably great for the local economy so I'm probably as bad as your local Chamber of Commerce. I would not live downtown unless that was the type of environment I wanted to be around but I've seen the cost of housing in Port Townsend go UP, not down. As for the mill, it's a bummer and I wouldn't want to live by it. I wish I knew what the growlers are trying to accomplish. They are torturing Whidbey Island too, why? Everyone will say go somewhere else but they sure are choosing some choice locations to make noise. What can I say, I like Port Townsend a lot, thinks it's adorable and would not hesitate to retire there, just probably not by the mill or downtown.
If the goal is to discourage people from moving there, that I definitely get. We are getting deluged in the Seattle metro too.
Ciara, I agree, especially regarding points 2, 3, and 5.
However, I would add that other areas besides downtown get the same "Tough sht, residents!" treatment. I will not publicly name names, but there are two empire builders in particular whom I consider nothing but greedy user-uppers.
Don't think living outside of downtown is any better. You will be hard-pressed to find a town
more twisted with corruption and internal politics. You can say that again! It goes far, far beyond the normal mutual back scratching. Owning a home here is an atrocity to
a sentient being. There's a reason for all the "For Sale" signs right now, and it's not just the Navy.
I think some of you are looking to move here, trying to flee Southern California. Well, guess
what. A lot of Southern Californians are already here. On the city council, in the chamber
of commerce, in every nook and cranny where power was bought with money, they are here. Oooo, ooo, I know exactly who you refer to, and I completely agree.
They're realtors, council members, (sometimes both,) and the Port Townsend
they are creating in their image is the very nightmare you SoCal folks are probably thinking
you're getting away from. It is total 100% neo-liberal (look it up, it's probably not what you
think. I love hippies, myself,) mindset that is just simply based on turning every last square
inch of land in or near this town, into profit for the already wealthy elite here. They say
"buy local" as if they're against box stores. But what they're really doing, is making sure
they have zero competition. I'm not sure who's nuttier. The ultra-conservative religious
people of all faiths who seem to have come here from... Oregon? Utah? Who knows?
or the creepy neo-liberal fascists who seem to want Port Townsend to be more of a fake
organic-plastic tree Legoland of Outdoorsy-ness than anything a real human being
could enjoy. There just seems to be very little "grey area" here; that is, there are very
few people who are just calm, happy, middle-class, working people. It's either griev-
ously overworked hospitality-business folks, the much-maligned poor, the old
money, the new money, and never the twains shall meet. This city has the tiniest middle class I have ever seen, OR they are so cowed by both the whining entitlement slacker babies and the wealthy powerclubbers that they don't dare speak up, and therefore appear to be a valley rather than a hill on the statistics graph.
Just know. If you buy a house here, you will regret it. And you will lose money on it,
no matter what. Because every repair, addition, upgrade... everything you do will be
a maze of fees, licences, bizarre denials of licenses, more fees, more licenses. You will
throw up your hands and take a huge loss just to get out of here and go crawling
back to wherever you came from, thinking, "Wow, we really survived that."
Those same SoCallians who moved in and took over to "pretty the place up" for tourists,
also seem to hate and loathe other SoCallians who move up here, and treat them with the
most bizarre hatred imagineable. The only hatred greater than SoCal on SoCal hatred, is
Old Local Family on New SoCal hatred. It's all very in-grouped unless you have a lot of
money and look like Ken and Barbie dolls in "outdoorsy dress casual wear" all day long.
(Think, L.L. Bean) For people who have had to work hard for a living their whole lives
and don't have much to show for it anymore, we're treated like scum no matter where
we're from. Nothing gets you the cold shoulder like a pair of worked-in jeans
and a pickup truck. The "We were here before you" antipathy extends towards ALL out of state newcomers, not just those from SoCal. So much for the much-touted "eclectic, diverse, accepting" aspect. Accepting if you are just like them. But I disagree about the worn jeans. The ONLY people I have noticed to put on snob airs about clothes used for hard physical work or trucks is that very inner circle of powerbrokers. The rest of PT is very accepting of all kinds of dress, and it is one of the things I like about this town.
Talk to anyone outside the precious inner social circle about what it's like here,
and you will get much, much different responses than the vultures who own
everything, and marketthe place like it's the answer to every retiree or hiker's dream.
They pour money into PR, and fix up downtown, but yes, real life behind the scenes is
very, very, different. It's terribly disconcerting and upsetting. My wife is ready to take
the kids and go back home (North Dakota,) while I try to sell the house here. We're
trying to stick it out, but it's very hard. People here are so, so unfriendly to anyone
who isn't wealthy or super liberal in a strange kind of way. (Again, I got nothing
against hippies, but these people are... I don't know how to describe them. They're
really not hippies at all. They're more like what I always heard of as "Northeastern
Liberals". They're people with Birkenstocks and all that, but they're very, very
wealthy and very harsh, cold people. These aren't the kind of "hippies" I ever
grew up around. They're just very odd, very clique-ish, very judgmental and
downright mean.)Now, that is painting with way too broad a brush. Most people are friendly in the sense that if you say hi they will say hi also. This may or may not be real friendliness to you. What I have noticed, though, is best depicted in, of all things, a South Park episode about SMUG ALERT! Namely, say or do something that isn't in agreement with what "we in Port Townsend" do, and you will know what I mean. Certainly not all residents are like this. The other place where I heard this kind of conformist crap was in Boulder, CO, also supposedly a bastion of independent thinking. Hah.
I find it hard to believe it's so difficult to find out info on the Growlers or anything else,
except that the abovementioned "PR" work seems tireless and endless. One need under-
stand, the people who aren't wealthy birkenstockers, are retired Navy. Which is a whole
nother level of... again, nothing like I've ever seen before. I'm former military myself,
but when I got out, I got OUT. These are people who I guess, maybe it's all they've got
in life is to live in the past, and make that their whole identity. Excellent point.I never understood it
myself, but around here, if one even *thinks* about criticizing what the military is doing
with anything, anywhere, it's either a bunch of birkenstock money screeching, (not be-
cause they're against the juts per se, only that it might deflate their property values,) or
it's a bunch of former military saying you're a traitor and should be shot. It's just truly the
most strange and awful place I've ever lived. I will be glad when it's my former zipcode.
Good luck to everyone who thinks they've just GOT to move here. Maybe you'll win
the lottery and things will go well for you here. For the rest, God help us all.
I hope you figure out a way to make things work for you, either in PT or elsewhere. I don't think it is 100% as grim as your description, but there is no denying that the place has a pretty face with a not-so-pretty interior. There are some really good people here...can be tough to keep that in mind. And meanwhile, the realtors are more than happy if someone wants to sell their recently-bought house, because for them it's yet another spin of the cash cow. Sell at a loss? They still get the commission. No wonder so many people decide to sell houses without using a realtor.
The hospital is expanding, but not necessarily in a way helpful to the general, responsible public. Let me provide one recent case of a bizarre price difference for the same medical procedure.
I priced an MRI at Jefferson Healthcare by calling them: $2600 or so. Then I called InHealth Imaging in Poulsbo (less than an hour's drive away): less than $600!!!!!! For the exact same procedure. My insurer said I could use either place, as they are both in network for my policy.
Of course, you know where I went. Especially since the deductible was nowhere close to being met, so this was all coming out of my own pockets.
So what is that extra $2000-2100 for? My insurer told me that because hospitals cannot turn away uninsured or people without funds to pay, they spread the cost out to everybody who does pay for their insurance. The problem--to me--is that this spreading is labelled a "facility fee" or some other deliberately evasive term. When what it should be called is robbing Peter to give to Paul.
I am SICK of hearing people complain about "those rich retirees" and justifying this kind of cost shifting. Did it never occur to them that not all retirees are rich, merely frugal folks who lived well within their means for decades and worked to save so that they would not be a burden to others? And that it is an insult to rob people who lived in said responsible manner so that the hospital gets paid to "save" someone who deliberately stuffed themselves with drugs just for the high?
So, shop around for healthcare providers. Local is not always the best choice. The drive to the stand-alone imaging facility in Poulsbo costs a little in gas and vehicle wear, but it isn't anywhere near $2000 more to go there!
The hospital is expanding, but not necessarily in a way helpful to the general, responsible public. Let me provide one recent case of a bizarre price difference for the same medical procedure.
I priced an MRI at Jefferson Healthcare by calling them: $2600 or so. Then I called InHealth Imaging in Poulsbo (less than an hour's drive away): less than $600!!!!!! For the exact same procedure. My insurer said I could use either place, as they are both in network for my policy.
Of course, you know where I went. Especially since the deductible was nowhere close to being met, so this was all coming out of my own pockets.
So what is that extra $2000-2100 for? My insurer told me that because hospitals cannot turn away uninsured or people without funds to pay, they spread the cost out to everybody who does pay for their insurance. The problem--to me--is that this spreading is labelled a "facility fee" or some other deliberately evasive term. When what it should be called is robbing Peter to give to Paul.
I am SICK of hearing people complain about "those rich retirees" and justifying this kind of cost shifting. Did it never occur to them that not all retirees are rich, merely frugal folks who lived well within their means for decades and worked to save so that they would not be a burden to others? And that it is an insult to rob people who lived in said responsible manner so that the hospital gets paid to "save" someone who deliberately stuffed themselves with drugs just for the high?
So, shop around for healthcare providers. Local is not always the best choice. The drive to the stand-alone imaging facility in Poulsbo costs a little in gas and vehicle wear, but it isn't anywhere near $2000 more to go there!
This happens everywhere. At every hospital. Not just at Jefferson Healthcare in PT. For the reason you state above but also because hospitals are not adequately reimbursed by Medicare for the services they provide to Medicare patients. Did your insurer tell you that? Hospitals are also financially penalized with reduced Medicare reimbursement rates for readmission rates above a certain level in an effort to improve quality. However, for teaching/specialty hospitals that attract patients with more serious health issues that often require readmission regardless of quality of care and for hospitals with patient populations that include a substantial percentage of people who don't follow discharge instructions regarding care and lifestyle changes, these penalties are unfairly applied and add to hospital operating cost. Did your insurer tell you that?
My point is that hospital billing is an extremely complex issue that is not at all clear to the average consumer. That's not to say it isn't messed up. It's a total mess!
It can be wise to shop around if you haven't yet met your deductible depending on what your deductible is and your typical heath care costs. Remember to evaluate the credentials and reputation of alternate providers. Just because a facility offers a healthcare service does not indicate quality of service.
The hospital in PT provides a level of care that you and your family would likely be very grateful for should you find yourselves in a position to require such care. A level of care extremely helpful to the general, responsible, local public....some of whom are without insurance or the ability to pay through no fault of their own. To assume all who cannot pay are druggies is myopic.
That said, I understand the frustrations you express. I live in an area and work for a hospital where people frequently smoke/eat/drink/drug/stab/shoot themselves into requiring extensive, state-of-the-art hospital care they cannot pay for.
Cost shifting is what insurance companies do too. So if you have insurance you are paying for those companies to "save" people who not only suffer serious health issues by virtue of chance but also those who have made lifestyle choices that led them to their serious health issues.
When you can figure out a different way for hospitals...who naturally incur phenomenal operating costs due to the nature of their business (advanced technology in medical equipment, services and staff) and who struggle to offset those operating costs in a complex climate of reimbursement, regulations and patient population dynamics...to stay in business while treating all who arrive at their doors, I am sure they will be thrilled to hear from you.
Yup - and illegal aliens having babies in hospitals in the U.S. who can't afford to pay for those baby delivery bills, too...the list goes on and on and on. Thanks for the knowledgeable information posted above, Jumpindogs - I'm one of those hospital workers, too, we hear about it now and then, these high costs from hospitals, from the people we are caring for and, the thought that comes to my mind is this: if you're really sick or injured and you're worrying about whether you're going to make it or not, where do you want to be to get help?
That's right - in a hospital with qualified staff to help you. Sometimes we can't control which one we're transported to, but yes, if we can research care and costs at different hospitals and are getting a "non life-threatening, non-emergent procedure" done, by all means do yourself the due diligence and find the best "bang for your buck."
Last edited by elkotronics; 04-03-2016 at 10:33 AM..
Yup - an illegal aliens having babies in hospitals in the U.S. who can't afford to pay for those baby delivery bills, too...the list goes on and on and on. Thanks for the knowledgeable information posted above, Jumpindogs - I'm one of those hospital workers, too, we hear about it now and then, these high costs from hospitals, from the people we are caring for and, the thought that comes to my mind is this: if you're really sick or injured and you're worrying about whether you're going to make it or not, where do you want to be to get help?
That's right - in a hospital with qualified staff to help you. Sometimes we can't control which one we're transported to, but yes, if we can research care and costs at different hospitals and are getting a "non life-threatening, non-emergent procedure" done, by all means do yourself the due diligence and find the best "bang for your buck."
If you need a specialist for medical care & you live on the Olympic Peninsula, you have to go to Seattle...if you want decent care...
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What can I say, I like Port Townsend a lot, thinks it's adorable and would not hesitate to retire there, just probably not by the mill or downtown.
