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All that took place in regards to religion was outside of our training facility.
Skywest is a major national airline, therefore most of the employees at our St George headquarters are transplants from other states.
No, everything went on around town. We made friends, or attempted to, with some residents who so happened to be LDS and much of that went on during our get togethers.
The restaurant incident was basically this: We had made reservations at a pretty nice restaurant to celebrate the end of simulator training. 11 of us went in two different shuttles.
I was part of the group who arrived first, as was this black friend of ours. We all wanted to sit outside on the patio, so he went inside to ask if there were any patio seats available while the rest of us waited outside.
Apparently, he approached the three hostesses who were working the front and inquired about patio seating. They all looked at him with ice cold faces, and finally one responded:
"Sir, this is a reservation only establishment. I'm sure you don't have one."
He laughed at them, and asked what exactly that was supposed to mean. At that point they threatened to call the police if he didn't leave
I couldn't make that up if I was writing a book about racism. I'm not even that creative.
You should have seen the looks on their faces when 11 of us-who were VERY angry walked in and demanded an explanation in regards to what happened. Needless to say we went elsewhere that evening.
Aside from that incident, I have been told by 2 different Mormons that they believe with certainty that the African race are decendents of Cain...or something like that, and therefore the cursed race.
The absurdity of it all really left me with no comeback...which is a rare thing
Regarding the guys in white shirts -- once your memory has been erased they will be able to their job with much less resistance from you.
*GASP* Brainwashing:
any systematic effort aimed at instilling certain attitudes and beliefs in a person against his will, usually beliefs in conflict with his prior beliefs and knowledge.[
Next time there I will have to bring along my aluminum foil hat
As a note, I don't dislike LDS members...especially since one of my cousin in laws is LDS himself...although not one of the hardcore kinds. He has drank coffee and beer from time to time
However as an interesting side note...during my internet search for the definition of the word: Brain washing for this post, I came across this website:
Seargent,
I couldn't make that up if I was writing a book about racism. I'm not even that creative.
You should have seen the looks on their faces when 11 of us-who were VERY angry walked in and demanded an explanation in regards to what happened. Needless to say we went elsewhere that evening.
Aside from that incident, I have been told by 2 different Mormons that they believe with certainty that the African race are decendents of Cain...or something like that, and therefore the cursed race.
The absurdity of it all really left me with no comeback...which is a rare thing
Hmm ... a couple of thoughts. First, Are you sure that the waitresses themselves were LDS? St. George itself is about 60 percent LDS, 40 percent non-LDS. They may have been LDS, or they may not have been.
Which brings me to my second thought -- if they were LDS were they representative of all Mormons? Same goes for the two people who made the decendents of Cain comments. I'd be interested to know how they got on the subject with you, since I doubt they randomly came up to share a piece of trivia with you.
However as an interesting side note...during my internet search for the definition of the word: Brain washing for this post, I came across this website:
If you don't believe me type the word brain washing into google and this is halfway down the first page!
How does that make you LDS members feel?
This Website does the very same thing it accuses Mormons of doing -- namely it uses distortions, half-truths, misinterpretations, and outright falsehoods to skew the reader to a point of view that he or she would not otherwise arrive at. I was going to list the particularly egregious points, but it turned out I was listing nearly every number.
any systematic effort aimed at instilling certain attitudes and beliefs in a person against his will, usually beliefs in conflict with his prior beliefs and knowledge.[
Next time there I will have to bring along my aluminum foil hat
As a note, I don't dislike LDS members...especially since one of my cousin in laws is LDS himself...although not one of the hardcore kinds. He has drank coffee and beer from time to time
However as an interesting side note...during my internet search for the definition of the word: Brain washing for this post, I came across this website:
If you don't believe me type the word brain washing into google and this is halfway down the first page!
How does that make you LDS members feel?
Well, it makes *me* feel like rolling my eyes and heaving a huge sigh. Same old same old, really.
I can't imagine spending my days coming up with ways to make fun of other religions. I have so much better stuff to be doing! Anyone who feels the need to waste so much time and effort in an attempt to tear down one specific religion is automatically suspect in my eyes. Rotten fruit, if you ask me.
All that took place in regards to religion was outside of our training facility.
Skywest is a major national airline, therefore most of the employees at our St George headquarters are transplants from other states.
No, everything went on around town. We made friends, or attempted to, with some residents who so happened to be LDS and much of that went on during our get togethers.
Wow, that's amazing. I would say I am a hardcore member; I socialize with non-members all the time, and we never get into religious discussions. I will admit that some of my non-member friends will ask me questions about my faith on occasion and I will answer, but then I leave it up to them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Embraer
The restaurant incident was basically this: We had made reservations at a pretty nice restaurant to celebrate the end of simulator training. 11 of us went in two different shuttles.
I was part of the group who arrived first, as was this black friend of ours. We all wanted to sit outside on the patio, so he went inside to ask if there were any patio seats available while the rest of us waited outside.
Apparently, he approached the three hostesses who were working the front and inquired about patio seating. They all looked at him with ice cold faces, and finally one responded:
"Sir, this is a reservation only establishment. I'm sure you don't have one."
He laughed at them, and asked what exactly that was supposed to mean. At that point they threatened to call the police if he didn't leave
I couldn't make that up if I was writing a book about racism. I'm not even that creative.
You should have seen the looks on their faces when 11 of us-who were VERY angry walked in and demanded an explanation in regards to what happened. Needless to say we went elsewhere that evening.
Ok, but I am assuming that unless the three hostesses identified themselves as members of the LDS faith, you only know they were rude and have no idea what religion they were.
Since you are a pilot, I am sure you have flown into SFO. My wife and I are Caucasian, and we have been treated rudely in upscale restaurants in that city more than once. I guess we don’t look like upscale clientele. There is no accounting for tact and customer service in any city.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Embraer
Aside from that incident, I have been told by 2 different Mormons that they believe with certainty that the African race are decendents of Cain...or something like that, and therefore the cursed race.
That’s what they may believe; however, I can unequivocally tell you they are wrong. I will slightly violate my own rule by telling you there is nothing in LDS doctrine that supports this belief or is it taught. I will say the Cain and Ham connection has roots in philosophies other than the LDS faith.
The people who made the comments about African Americans were Mormon.
This was during a get-together, and somehow we began talking about world economics.... yes we were all college grads
I began explaining the socio-economic reasons why many countries, in particular those in Africa have never historically developed while those in Europe and a majority of those colonized by Europe have.
So while I was pointing out things such as natural resources, climate, farming techniques etc... one of the mormons chimed in and said, " I have another theory"
So we all thought he would have something informative to say, but instead he states that he believes the African race is cursed and went on to explain the whole Cain episode.
At that time I had no idea it was an LDS thing...I really just thought he was a closeted racist and that the other mormons were agreeing with him because the were "sticking together" or something like that.
It wasn't until a few months later that I learned about the Mormon's history of racism towards Africans. I know the official doctrine was changed sometime in the 70s, but just like Jim Crow ended long ago but racism persists in many corners of the South...so I believe that the mentality still exists within many Mormons. But not all of them.
There was another incident where a completly different Mormon acquaintance of mine, this one back in Dallas during a little party my mormon cousin in law was throwing for members of his curch, was complaining that the other night he went to the movies and there were "black people everywhere" He went on to blame Hurricane Katrina for the enormous amounts of Black people in Dallas.
"I feel like I'm in Atlanta again!" He said. The other Mormons, minus my cousin in law, all agreed and chuckled. Me, my fiancee, and my cousin-the only non mormons there all looked at eachother disgusted.
As for the St George episode: No, I do not know for sure if they were LDS or not. But 60% of a population is a lot in case nobody has stopped and thought about it. Sure, its easy to say that 60% is not 100%...but 60% is a BIG number.
So, given the facts of probability combined with the history the LDS church has of being slightly if not very prejudice towards minorities I would say this would be enough to bring this case to trial if it were a murder investigation.
Plus given that there are only 120 African Americans living in St George...one of the, if not THE lowest numbers of any city its size in the country, says a lot.
With all that said; I have nothing against the LDS church as a whole. Yes, I am against any institution that formally preaches hate of any kind. I know that is all in the church's past but it still lingers within many of the community.
On the other hand, all the Mormons I have ever met have been very kind people. Aside from their views towards minorities and their prejudice towards other religions I would say they are great people. During my time in St George I found all of them to be very helpful anytime I needed anything they never hesitated in helping. If they believed that would get them their own universe one day, then be it. I'm not going to judge their beliefs.
Anyway, like I said before I personally feel based on everything I have seen, heard, and experienced that it would be difficult for a non mormon to live peacefully and fully in Utah...particularly outside of SLC. Then again I provide an opinion based on my experiences.
If others have opposite view points then by all means share them.
FYI: I know many Catholics, Protestants, and others who are also racist and biggots. The KKK is a perfect example. So was the Nazi party and other assorted charaters like George Wallace and Strom Thurmand. So I know this is not an LDS thing. It just seems to me to be more widespread within the LDS community given the church's history on formally preaching hate for....over 100 years, I think it was??
Anyways...those were my experiences with Utah. I still go in and out of SLC all the time as that is one of our major hubs. Now I am more "experienced" so I know where to go and not go. Basically we stay in the downtown area on layovers. That is one of the few places we can get a beer
Seargent...I am actually based out of SFO right now...and I personally hate the city of Oakland. San Fran is a great city and I love it...but Oakland is a whole different ball game. Yes, given the right amount of pomposity any person can look down their nose at others. But we all wonder just how much of what happened to our friend that night in St George was a class issue-we were all in designer clothes with collered shirts-and how much of it was race driven??
As for the St George episode: No, I do not know for sure if they were LDS or not. But 60% of a population is a lot in case nobody has stopped and thought about it. Sure, its easy to say that 60% is not 100%...but 60% is a BIG number.
Yes but hardly enough to provide a high level of confidence that they were LDS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Embraer
formally preaching hate for....over 100 years, I think it was??
With that statement, I take issue. You do realize though that a major reason the Mormons had problems with their neighbors, especially in Missouri, was because they were abolitionists in a slave state.
I would encourage people to read through this thread for contrasting points of view. Other than that, this issue's pretty well exhausted.
It's not an issue I am attempting to press or an opinion I have towards your religion.
Yes or No: Did the LDS Church from it's creation in 1830 or so to the late 1970s teach, preach, practice, and believe that people of dark skin were inferior and/or cursed?
Yes they did. They did, not you. No reason to take offense due to the errors of others. I'm very glad-no sarcasm at all-that you are not like that. However many in your church were like that and some still are.
It's not your fault. I'm glad that things have changed officially, but given that this change occured only 20 to 30 years ago isn't it safe to say that the mentality still persists among many mormons? Particularly the more conservative ones? I have heard rumors, and they are just rumors, that there are small towns in Idaho that African Americans don't even dare drive through.
I'm only vaguely familiar with Mormon history, I'm sure you know more than I do. From what I do understand the gripe that residents of Missouri had with Mormons was their insular communities which tended to overshadow their own, plus the fact that the mormons were primarily from New England and other parts of the East while Missourians were firmly planted in southern culture, therefore unwelcoming of outsiders.
And yes, there was the fact that many mormons held abolotionist views. Yes I did know that. From what I understand it was Joseph Smith who was an abolistionist. His successors were not. Starting with whomever came after him, Brigham Young perhaps, blacks were considered inferior and cursed and therefore excluded from Mormon life.
But again, that was those people and that era. You didn't make the rules and I presume you never preached that level of hate. So don't take too much offense.
All of us have periods of our religion we wished had never happened. I for one am ashamed of the Crusades my religion sanctioned...and they happened hundreds of years ago!
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