..... Privatization of some State Parks ... (maintenance, charge, address)

[Sigequinox]

A great example of the horrible decisions that can be made when you throw too much money at something that should be "natural" is Mount Washington in NH. Don't get me wrong, the place is GORGEOUS, but imagine hiking on a relentless climb to over 6k feet over 4 miles that takes 5-7 hours to finally reach summit and then....You see some fat child eating a taco bell buritto at the top yelling at his push-over parents that he's bored and wants to go back home and play xbox. Now multiply that by 100, because there's a friggen paved road to the top!!! Really diminishes the experience and solitude.

Summit
IMAG0049.jpg

3/4 mile in at the top of Tuckermans Revine, just outside the reach of people lazy, loud mouthed, children. ahhh
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[septimus]

Originally Posted by Sigequinox

That's a terrible situation. Were they drinking alcohol? I usually try to make sure an "accident" was not actually irresponsible negligence before I hop on the "we need others to take care of us" bandwagon.

Don't answer if your not comfortable talking about it, but IME, when multiple adults get seriously injured or have a simultaneous fatal incident, there's a lot of "you shouldn't do that" involved.

They weren't strong swimmers and they were in a waterfall pool trying to save another friend that got in trouble.

[hiknapster]

Originally Posted by septimus

They weren't strong swimmers and they were in a waterfall pool trying to save another friend that got in trouble.

Dear heart, a lifeguard is not going to be sitting at a waterfall, anyway. That's not a swimming hole.

Further, there are lifeguards at state parks in Mass. and Tenn., and every darn summer, people drown in each.

It still doesn't make your knee-jerk reaction to throw money at something correct. If fees improved state parks then the Mass. ones wouldn't be crapholes.

[nashvols]

It's all about how you use your funding. You're right that throwing money at a problem does not necessarily solve it -- and I don't think the TN State Parks are in bad shape. But I don't think we should dismiss (some) fees or other streams of revenue that could possibly improve the parks.

The problem is, knowing how government tends to work, once the parks start raising revenue of their own, politicians will probably start look to taking money from the other side -- and reduce funding from the state budget so they can fund something else.

[septimus]

Originally Posted by nashvols

It's all about how you use your funding. You're right that throwing money at a problem does not necessarily solve it -- and I don't think the TN State Parks are in bad shape. But I don't think we should dismiss (some) fees or other streams of revenue that could possibly improve the parks.

The problem is, knowing how government tends to work, once the parks start raising revenue of their own, politicians will probably start look to taking money from the other side -- and reduce funding from the state budget so they can fund something else.

excellent point

[hiknapster]

Originally Posted by nashvols

It's all about how you use your funding. You're right that throwing money at a problem does not necessarily solve it -- and I don't think the TN State Parks are in bad shape. But I don't think we should dismiss (some) fees or other streams of revenue that could possibly improve the parks.

The problem is, knowing how government tends to work, once the parks start raising revenue of their own, politicians will probably start look to taking money from the other side -- and reduce funding from the state budget so they can fund something else.

Exactly.

So there's this guy that's all over the internet touting the benefits of privatizing state parks. He runs this blog. Oh, but wait. Warren Meyer is actually the president of Recreation Resource Management. Read the fine print down at the bottom of this page.

On this blog he says he is a small business owner. Gee, pretty big national outfit for a small business owner. But wait. Before that he worked for places like Exxon, Honeywell. I'll leave it at that. I'm on a brief break at work but the more I follow this guy and his "research" buddies it's easy to see they are interested in advancing the cause of Big Business. The amount of websites and organizations that are there to persuade folks while they line their pockets is staggering.

Bottom line is there is money to be made from privatization and that's why they are jockeying for it. Meanwhile, the state isn't losing money but hey, enough palms get greased, enough publicity gets massaged and they are in and it is a slippery slope from there. One day they have a hot dog stand, then they are running the campground then they are at the gate of every park in the country. And they aren't doing it because they are nice guys. They will be making money.

HL Mencken once said that nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public and these corporations know it. I'm not a liberal or a conservative, I'm a moderate that worries about our people and where this country is headed. This sort of stuff makes me sick.

[nashvols]

Yeah...doesn't sound like a direction I want to head. Private sponsorships are one thing. Private management is one thing. Private ownership of the parks? No thanks.

[jchometeam]

Originally Posted by nashvols

Yeah...doesn't sound like a direction I want to head. Private sponsorships are one thing. Private management is one thing. Private ownership of the parks? No thanks.

And not one thing in the article linked to start this thread mentioned private ownership of parks.

[TN Tin Man]

As of May 2012 > http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2012/ma...business-have/

[Serious Conversation]

IMO, state parks should be considered a public good, owned by the government for preservation of a natural space, conservation, and recreation.

I don't believe in charging a fee to simply drive onto the property because I think parks should be open to all, regardless of ability to pay. If someone is wanting to bring an RV, dock their boat at a marina, use the golf course, ride horses, etc, I can see these things charging a fee. Each one of those things would have its own upkeep and expenses above and beyond general maintenance.

The only state parks I've been to within the last few years are Warriors Path, Panther Creek, Roan Mountain, and Fall Creek Falls. None of these struck me as being in "dire need of repair." There were things that should be refreshed or repaired, but you'll get that everywhere.

I'd be concerned that if these parks are privatized, there will be additional commercialization there, or if the land or resources are valuable, having the land built up and/or resources extracted and lose the park. I don't think privatization is the way to go at all.