The Tennessee Septic Tank / Too Many Bedrooms Gotcha (Knoxville, Maryville: sale, home)

[bbkaren]

We will be putting in 3 bedrooms, expecting the 2 grown ones to visit from time to time I'm sure.

We're just being cautious about the septic because I'm told we don't have space for a second one if this one fails. I'm not sure how that worked out (i.e. I always thought it was a requirement but my understanding is, in our case it just simply isn't there).

So...we're looking at ways to discharge gray water (laundry, showers, sinks) in a way that the water can be gathered and used, for instance, to water the garden rather than sending it into the septic. Obviously we need to look into what cleansers, etc. we'd be using or a way to make the water useable in this manner. I'm not sure this is an acceptable practice by code; in fact I think it's probably not.

At any rate, I'm told there are options that can keep a septic safer.

The contractor recommended a gallon of buttermilk left out to sour for a couple weeks then poured down the toilet for a culture of bacteria to keep the colonies healthy. According to the internet, this (as well as flushing yeast down every month) is questionable in effectiveness but allegedly works as well as (very expensive) Rid-X.

Also, a big part of it is indeed, as my Grandma would say, "three Pee's to a pull" (or in the modern terminology, "if it's yellow, let it mellow").

So, we plan to err on the side of caution. Of course, we will also keep our fingers crossed for sewer to come along one year in the not too distant future! We do have city water so I don't see why they can't just run a sewer line too lol!

[yarddawg]

Originally Posted by bbkaren

We will be putting in 3 bedrooms, expecting the 2 grown ones to visit from time to time I'm sure.

We're just being cautious about the septic because I'm told we don't have space for a second one if this one fails. I'm not sure how that worked out (i.e. I always thought it was a requirement but my understanding is, in our case it just simply isn't there).

So...we're looking at ways to discharge gray water (laundry, showers, sinks) in a way that the water can be gathered and used, for instance, to water the garden rather than sending it into the septic. Obviously we need to look into what cleansers, etc. we'd be using or a way to make the water useable in this manner. I'm not sure this is an acceptable practice by code; in fact I think it's probably not.

Nope, Tennessee sewer law makes no distinction between greywater and blackwater. At the state (TDEC) level greywater violations are usually only enforced when there are neighbor complaints. Which are usually because the neighbor has been annoyed by something completely unrelated.

Originally Posted by bbkaren

At any rate, I'm told there are options that can keep a septic safer.

The contractor recommended a gallon of buttermilk left out to sour for a couple weeks then poured down the toilet for a culture of bacteria to keep the colonies healthy. According to the internet, this (as well as flushing yeast down every month) is questionable in effectiveness but allegedly works as well as (very expensive) Rid-X.

Also, a big part of it is indeed, as my Grandma would say, "three Pee's to a pull" (or in the modern terminology, "if it's yellow, let it mellow").

So, we plan to err on the side of caution. Of course, we will also keep our fingers crossed for sewer to come along one year in the not too distant future! We do have city water so I don't see why they can't just run a sewer line too lol!

Best bet is to low-flow everything as much as possible. Bacteria and yeast additives aren't much help unless you're doing something to damage the culture in the septic tank. Large amounts of chlorine bleach, grease, paint, that sort of thing. If it helps Tennessee septic design is based on a maximum residential flow of 150 gallons per day per bedroom. If you could work out low flow fixtures and high efficiency appliances that would keep you under that you should be OK. It wouldn't be "officially" OK as a 3 BR but you wouldn't have a black lake in your backyard.

Once you have the initial permit and have put the septic in and received state approval, if it fails you will be able to get a permit to attempt a repair, even if there isn't proper duplicate area. (Is this in an old subdivision?) But on marginal sites attempting a repair can quickly degenerate into "trying stuff". And can be very expensive. I have seen five figure septic system repairs in Tennessee. That worked most of the time.

[hiknapster]

Excuse me for seeming stupid, but didn't someone else look at bbkaren's property and deem it a nightmare, or at least pass it up? I could pull up that thread, if hard-pressed.

And, bbkaren, aren't you under a $3,500 mortgage in Jersey? Yet, you bought this property, knowing that it may only perk for a one-bedroom?

Prices are coming down across the country, including East Tennessee. You knew that, right?

I'm just saying.

[gemkeeper]

Knowing that you know how to protect your septic system, bbkaren, I would imagine you will never run into a problem.

When I worked in city engineering in MA we always suggested to people that they have their tank pumped every two years. Almost no one ever did, but in a case like yours, it might be prudent to do it every couple of years.

And, we never recommended RidX. Big time money maker for nothing. It is an airtight miniture little world in there and the little guys doing all of the work rarely need any help. Just keep out the caustics, no animal by-products, and limit the water and beer intake of your guests - no problem.

YardDawg had a good idea, too. The front loading washing machines use only a couple of gallons of water per cycle. I have one and love it.

Gray water collection and usage is another great idea. It is heavily encouraged here in GA. It is just fine for your plants (actually can control aphids and other garden pests). Limit showers to 7 - 8 minutes, use low flow faucets and toilets, etc. There are lots of things you can do that will benefit your septic system and benefit the environment in the bargain.

You are going GREEN, bbkaren! Congrats.

[hiknapster]

Lordy, only my friend gemthornton, the bluebird of happiness, could find the up side to this!

Well, if bbkaren is happy, then we are all happy. But I don't understand why you would look all across the state to find a lot that you MAY only build a one bedroom house on.

Then again, bbkaren says it makes it her infinitely happy, and I am certainly not, so she has one leg up on me.

[bbkaren]

Yeh, it's a very old subdivision, 100 years or something. The county zoning officer said they'd never allow a lot the size of ours to be built on now (it's a half acre, but it's a long, thin triangle 89' at its widest point).

Hik, yes someone else did pass it up; I don't recall the details but he said it wasn't worth the effort and risk that it wouldn't be buildable.

We had a couple bucks and really want to at least step in the right direction, towards our semi-retirement in TN. Things are so bad here, and we don't belong here to begin with so some light at the end of the tunnel makes a big difference!

So, we made sure it's buildable at least to the minimum we'd accept and reduced the price. We're told there's no way, even if we found another lot, that it could be worth less than we paid for it ($9,000). It's a lovely neighborhood (read: rural but not too far from Knoxville) and a corner lot surrounded by TVA land which means no direct neighbors.

Anyway, yes, we are the ones with the big mortgage. But thankfully we were able to pay cash for our little corner of Tennessee and can visit it from time to time until we're ready to come down and really get to work!

[jimj]

I wonder if the primary drain field were to fail if you could then switch to an engineered field in the same spot? I've also heard that a failed field can be redone by excavating all of the old dirt out and replacing it. Not cheap but when you only have one it's a way. As for tank additives, the septic people here "suggest" ridex but not the amount on the box. I have been told that 2/3cup after using any cleaners with bleach will work just fine. As for putting anything but water and human waste down the drains, we've been on septic for years and have a disposal. We do our best to limit massive amounts of stuff going down but things like breads,sugars etc actually ferment and feed bacteria and if you have a good disposal will be chopped very fine before going down. We NEVER put grease,egg shells, any fiberous veggies,coffee grounds or obviously hard to process stuff down it and at every tank inspection all has been well. It was also suggested not to use powder laundry soap btw. Our systems are now required to be pressurized so as to blow the effluent throughout the field so there's a filter to be cleaned every year and we inspect every year at the same time. I would also wonder if since you only have one field if it would be advantagous to have a pressurized system so you spread better?
Just a thought...

[daniellefort]

Originally Posted by hiknapster

Lordy, only my friend gemthornton, the bluebird of happiness, could find the up side to this!

Well, if bbkaren is happy, then we are all happy. But I don't understand why you would look all across the state to find a lot that you MAY only build a one bedroom house on.

Then again, bbkaren says it makes it her infinitely happy, and I am certainly not, so she has one leg up on me.

This is just my perspective through reading your posts for so long but maybe what is making you so unhappy is this forum itself. It's all about happy people buying land or a home and moving to TN and that's all your reading all day and we all know you've been wanting to have your own home for so long but are not in the position to do so yet. Maybe just reading all these peoples posts is what's making you so upset. It seems every time somebody states they bought this or that, you say they are crazy because prices are coming down and they should wait yet the people buying now are obviously in the financial situation where they can afford to. It's not only a selling market now but it's also a buyer's market for those who can afford it and to pay cash and have it paid for up front is even better and gives you an edge on making a deal with cash flashing in their eyes. Just because asking price seems high, doesn't mean it sells for that price. I wish you could find your little piece of happiness in TN but apparently it doesn't look like your finding it by your comments.

[bbkaren]

You're right about the selling vs. buying price; our lot was originally listed at $16K which we honestly would have paid in an instant if it could definitely have accommodated 2 bedroom septic.

But the lot had been on the market for almost a year with the realtor, and another full year FSBO prior to that. Since buildability was questionable and most people just wound up moving on to an easier lot as soon as they found out about the odd shape.

We've gone the extra mile in hopes that it'll pan out in the form of really being a nice little spot where we can relax and just enjoy life.

Hik means well, she's just misunderstood! Seriously though, Hik, you'll stumble upon an opportunity and if you're willing to ride it out, things will turn out your way! It just takes patience and persistence.

In our case, we'd love to jump up and move now but we can't because of many factors--one being that we can't afford another mortgage and our credit won't get us one anyway. So we have to wait for the market to shape up to sell our house here, and our teens to get done with school/college, and then we can come down, rent for a while and build our little place. We probably have 5 years or so before we'll be rockin' on the porch swing.

But I'm old enough to know that 5 years goes in the blink of an eye and if we just buckle down now and get the process started, that time will be here before we know it.

And Hik, that can be the case for you too, if you just put your mind to it--and we're here for you for guidance, advice, and especially cheerleading, in a big way!

[gemkeeper]

Hik, you know that I, bbkaren and many others second that confidence in you. You have helped so many posters to get their heads on straight and you can, too.

There truly is no "best" place. Just make your place as happy and peaceful as you can.

There is a home out there with your name on it. We'll be happy when we watch you stencil it onto your new mailbox. In the meantime, just continue to hang in there, watch the prices fall, and then pounce just like bbkaren did.

There is happiness in them thar hills. You will have it, too. We're behind you, Hik, ready to throw a pillow under your butt if necessary, but mostly, to just help shore you up during a down period.

A dear friend told me many times as I was dealing with a troublesome teenager - "This too shall pass." I have let those words be my mantra for many years and it has never failed me. Hang in there, girlfriend.

We just kissed our lot good-bye an hour ago, but through my tears I see another one out there peeking off in the distance at the mountains and a beautiful sunrise. Keep your eyes on the sunrise, hiknapster.