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The Statler looks suprisingly like the Hotel Syracuse. Perhaps it was designed by the same architect. My father took the NYS bar exam at the Statler when the hotel was operated under the Hilton flag in the mid 1970s. It's unfortunate that Syracuse lacks deep pocketed, locally-based developers like Rocco Termini, Uniland, Zemsky and several other individuals and groups that have been largely responsible for Buffalo's downtown renaissance. Syracuse is light years behind Buffalo in terms of downtown and urban development. Part of this can be attributed to Buffalo having twice the population. More recently, however the Spitzer, Patterson and Cuomo Administrations have really opened up the spigot of state funds for economic development initiatives in Buffalo and Rochester. Having the Upstate HQ of Empire State Development which houses several influential employees residing in WNY has argubably had a major influence on where state funds are doled out for retention, expansion, and attraction projects. On a related note, Buffalo Rising is an excellent website; a concept I don't think will be replicated in Syracuse.
I dont think Buffalo is that far ahead actually when it comes to their downtown. In terms of the number of projects they have seen more happen, but in terms of actual revitalization and creating an interesting downtown, they're probably at about the same place as Syracuse. They have Chippewa St, which has a lot of bars and night clubs, but other than that the rest of downtown is pretty much dead after 5 o'clock and on the weekends. Not as many restaurants in the actual CBD as you would expect given its size and all of the nightlife nearby, and virtually no other retail. Main St, which is actually a pretty impressive streetscape, is dead after business hours and even during the day reminds me a lot at ground level of South Salina St. Much longer and with a streetcar, but same run down store fronts, etc.
In terms of overall urban development, I think they are also probably in a similar state. Again, Buffalo is a bigger place, which makes a difference, and also everything is laid out on a grid radiating from Niagara Square in downtown, so development outside of the CBD tends to be in long strip rather than dense neighborhoods or districts. I think if you scaled up Westcott to Buffalo MSA size, and stretched it all out into a 2 mile long by quarter mile wide strip, it would probably be very similar to Elmwood Village/Allentown combination. Hertel Ave is very similar to North Salina St or Eastwood.
One area where I do think Buffalo is farther ahead, though, is in the amount and intensity of local public support for revitalizing downtown and the city. The city and county governments, while they contribute funds, dont seem to be spearheading improvments in the city as much as individuals and small private organizations are. There are also several publications like Buffalo Rising which support and publicize improvements and initiatives in the city and get people involved. It just seems like as much of a grassroots effort to bring the city back to life as it is a public project, unlike in Syracuse where the most active proponents of downtown seem to be public or semi-public entities.
In terms of overall urban development, I think they are also probably in a similar state. Again, Buffalo is a bigger place, which makes a difference, and also everything is laid out on a grid radiating from Niagara Square in downtown, so development outside of the CBD tends to be in long strip rather than dense neighborhoods or districts. I think if you scaled up Westcott to Buffalo MSA size, and stretched it all out into a 2 mile long by quarter mile wide strip, it would probably be very similar to Elmwood Village/Allentown combination. Hertel Ave is very similar to North Salina St or Eastwood.
There is a bit more development along the waterfront area in downtown Buffalo in recent years but I agree that their downtown is pretty much dead at night. The Elmwood Village/Allentown section - at 2 miles long and 1/4 mile wide - is far larger proportionally relative to population than the Westcott Neighborhood. Buffalo is roughly 2X the size of Syracuse but the Westcott business district is one long block and the residential area perhaps1/4 mile on each side. Much smaller relative to the size of the city.
There is a bit more development along the waterfront area in downtown Buffalo in recent years but I agree that their downtown is pretty much dead at night. The Elmwood Village/Allentown section - at 2 miles long and 1/4 mile wide - is far larger proportionally relative to population than the Westcott Neighborhood. Buffalo is roughly 2X the size of Syracuse but the Westcott business district is one long block and the residential area perhaps1/4 mile on each side. Much smaller relative to the size of the city.
What I like is that the University and Thornden Park bridges Westcott and Marshall/Crouse Streets. Interestingly, the Elmwood Village and Greater University Hill(including Westcott) were voted as some of the best neighborhoods in the country by the American Planning Association.
Another business district that isn't that bad, but has room for improvement is the Butternut Circle/Grant Boulevard strip. I was the building just south of the circle could get some development. Same with the storefront on the corner of Grant and Wadsworth.
Seeing the new and plans for the Medical building in Camillus is exciting. I will say one thing that is changing in Central New York is the energy being placed in our villages. Manlius is growing with development like crazy, Fayetteville is adding more local business, Cazenovia is very healthy and now Camillus seems on the uptick. I hope Eastwood seeing greater focus and there would be positive change with recent developments.
Our reagions villages are really seeing exciting growth, and I hope that translates to the city as well, with Eastwood, Westscot, Little Italy, Nedrow, etc. Livable communities like this is key in addition to what is happening downtown.
The earlier mentions of Buffalo are interesting. As a UB student from Syracuse, I envy Buffalo's close-knit village feel in its neighborhoods. They have great commercial cooridors with Elmwood, Allentown, Hertel Ave, etc. It really allows people to just walk from their homes to these great streets. Syracuse really struggles with this and lacks this. I hope efforts t change this begin to occur. Elmwood is okay but a new Kinney Drugs is not going to make this happen. Local business is 100% what we need.
In regrads to comparing downtowns, Buffalo's is bigger and has a much larger workforce, especially with HSBC, M&T, Delaware North, First Niagara, among others. Yet I feel the choices are limited for these employees and I have talked to several downtown workers about it. Very few choices in food, big lack of upscale eateries, etc. I think all that is staying in Elmwood, although gradually more is occuring downtown. So despite having a massive and well paid workforce downtown, Buffalo is struggling with an active downtown. Ive been to Chippewa Street, and it is okay, really not bad at night, but during the day, 95% dead with only one or 2 restaurants. It just baffles me that a 60,000-employee area has such limited shops and eateries.
Syracuse is definately blessed to have Armory Sqaure, and I know we always beat the horse to death about Armory Square, but it truly is such a huge asset to our downtown. And I believe thats what gives our central business district a leg above Buffalo's. Given we do not have these Fortune 500 employers, but as far as retail and dining, we have alot of great options, and Salina Street is beginning to become mixed use as well. (While Main Street in Buffalo is dead)... I mean seriously people, Downtown Buffalo would kill for an Urban Outfitters!!
Also, I think a huge plus that is sometimes forgotten is that when you include Downtown's 30,000 employees, plus University Hill's 20,000, plus St. Joseph's 6,000, plus Franklin Square's 2,000 or so, you get a workforce about the size of Downtown Buffalo... Which I think is fantastic for Downtown Syracuse.
So here's my verdict, because I technically live in both cities....
-in terms of mixed-use villages and residential-commercial areas... Buffalo > Syracuse
-But in terms of who has the more exciting downtown and central business district... Buffalo < Syracuse
Just to be fair to Kinney Drugs, it is based in Gouverneur. It actually more local in comparison to Rite Aid(Harrisburg) and Walgreens(Chicago). Kinney Drugs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Seeing the new and plans for the Medical building in Camillus is exciting. I will say one thing that is changing in Central New York is the energy being placed in our villages. Manlius is growing with development like crazy, Fayetteville is adding more local business, Cazenovia is very healthy and now Camillus seems on the uptick. I hope Eastwood seeing greater focus and there would be positive change with recent developments.
Our reagions villages are really seeing exciting growth, and I hope that translates to the city as well, with Eastwood, Westscot, Little Italy, Nedrow, etc. Livable communities like this is key in addition to what is happening downtown.
The earlier mentions of Buffalo are interesting. As a UB student from Syracuse, I envy Buffalo's close-knit village feel in its neighborhoods. They have great commercial cooridors with Elmwood, Allentown, Hertel Ave, etc. It really allows people to just walk from their homes to these great streets. Syracuse really struggles with this and lacks this. I hope efforts t change this begin to occur. Elmwood is okay but a new Kinney Drugs is not going to make this happen. Local business is 100% what we need.
In regrads to comparing downtowns, Buffalo's is bigger and has a much larger workforce, especially with HSBC, M&T, Delaware North, First Niagara, among others. Yet I feel the choices are limited for these employees and I have talked to several downtown workers about it. Very few choices in food, big lack of upscale eateries, etc. I think all that is staying in Elmwood, although gradually more is occuring downtown. So despite having a massive and well paid workforce downtown, Buffalo is struggling with an active downtown. Ive been to Chippewa Street, and it is okay, really not bad at night, but during the day, 95% dead with only one or 2 restaurants. It just baffles me that a 60,000-employee area has such limited shops and eateries.
Syracuse is definately blessed to have Armory Sqaure, and I know we always beat the horse to death about Armory Square, but it truly is such a huge asset to our downtown. And I believe thats what gives our central business district a leg above Buffalo's. Given we do not have these Fortune 500 employers, but as far as retail and dining, we have alot of great options, and Salina Street is beginning to become mixed use as well. (While Main Street in Buffalo is dead)... I mean seriously people, Downtown Buffalo would kill for an Urban Outfitters!!
Also, I think a huge plus that is sometimes forgotten is that when you include Downtown's 30,000 employees, plus University Hill's 20,000, plus St. Joseph's 6,000, plus Franklin Square's 2,000 or so, you get a workforce about the size of Downtown Buffalo... Which I think is fantastic for Downtown Syracuse.
So here's my verdict, because I technically live in both cities....
-in terms of mixed-use villages and residential-commercial areas... Buffalo > Syracuse
-But in terms of who has the more exciting downtown and central business district... Buffalo < Syracuse
This is simply my take at least
As another who has lived in both cities, I would like to add one thing to your thorough post. Syracuse is also "blessed" to have those academic institutions (SU, SUNY Upstate, SUNY ESF) and three major regional hospitals (St. Joseph's, Crouse, and Upstate Medical Hospital) which you mentioned contiguous to its downtown urban center, something Buffalo does not have. Syracuse is fortunate to have like minded leaders who are pursuing a vision of fusing the vitality of downtown and the university hill area into one vibrant urban core (I hope this last beyond Nancy Cantor and others who are at the helm now).
Yes, Buffalo does have Buffalo General Hospital and Roswell Park, but that is about it. There have been attempts to build a third SUNY Buffalo campus downtown, but with budget challenges in Albany, that has not happened (yet!). Even if it does, the proximity of major education and medical institutions (and there expanding employment base) to Syracuse's downtown adds a vitality to its urban core which makes possible the types of development taking place. Unfortunately, Buffalo does not posses those assets and will have to create that vitality from scratch.
I cannot agree more with your assessment surrounding the transformation of villages in Onondaga County, they have become microcosms of new urbanism around the Syracuse urban core. Its kind of a "hub and spoke" phenomenon developing. I find it fascinating that one has the option of traveling into the city for culture, activities, dining, entertainment, festivals, cafe's, etc or remain in one's own "backyard" for the same experience on a smaller scale. Unlike years past, where the city and the suburbs competed for residents, that vitality is now county wide on a variety of scales, i.e. Village, Town or City. It will be interesting to see how the trail and canal system maximizes this vision by linking Syracuse with those villages, i.e. Loop the lake, Erie Canal, Onondaga Creek, etc. The urban core and its surrounding population centers should never compete, but compliment each other.
Last edited by urbanplanner; 10-20-2011 at 03:38 PM..
Its an impressive and imposing structure, esp. from above. I like the emphasis on "green" design and infrastructure, particularly storm water mitigation, i.e. "save the rain".
"The new hub’s outside lanes — where snow can accumulate — are lined with a hot-water system meant to constantly melt all but the heaviest snowfalls. The hub also will collect rainwater that falls on the roof and direct it through a special drain that puts the water back into the ground, rather than into an already flood-prone storm water and sewage system.
"Tiered roofs will allow sunlight — though not rain or snow — to filter in."
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