Destiny USA update (New York, Buffalo, Syracuse: transfer, theater, construction)
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I live near Ottawa and although this area should not be the bread and butter of DestiNY USA I think you will always get a decent number of shoppers going down to the Syracuse area. Regardless of the dollar, gas or improved local shopping options up here. Ottawa will always be a lucrative and important secondary market for Carousel/DestiNY and Syracuse in general. And Waterloo Outlets as well. I've been to so-called outlet malls in Canada (Toronto and Montreal) and the deals are nowhere near those you can get in the U.S.
Consider that many people from the Montreal area (4 million) still go shopping in Plattsburgh (40,000?) on occasion....
I live near Ottawa and although this area should not be the bread and butter of DestiNY USA I think you will always get a decent number of shoppers going down to the Syracuse area. Regardless of the dollar, gas or improved local shopping options up here. Ottawa will always be a lucrative and important secondary market for Carousel/DestiNY and Syracuse in general. And Waterloo Outlets as well. I've been to so-called outlet malls in Canada (Toronto and Montreal) and the deals are nowhere near those you can get in the U.S.
Consider that many people from the Montreal area (4 million) still go shopping in Plattsburgh (40,000?) on occasion....
True and you sometimes see Quebec plates(assuming from Gatineau and vicinity) down here too. Same thing occurs to a degree in the Watertown area too.
The influx of Canadians (from the more rural stretch of Ontario between the cities Kingston and Ottawa) has been good for Syracuse shopping centers, hotels and the airport. However, it would be very risky for the local tourism, hospitality and retail industry to depend so heavily on this group due to potential fluctuations between the Canadian and US dollar as well as improved, lower cost air service out of Ottawa. Late last year, Tanger, a North Carolina-based developer of outlet malls announced it would build a 350,000 outlet center in suburban Ottawa. The project will be completed in 2013. This could reduce the number of Ottawa area shoppers that travel to Syracuse, particuarly if Canadian gas prices trend higher. Tanger's expansion into Canada may result in development of 7 to 15 outlet malls in the country, according to various news reports. Due to the distance between Ottawa and Kingston, it may not be far fetched that Kingston, a city in its own right, may eventually land an outlet center in addition to the one planned near Ottawa.
I doubt it will make much of a dent into Destiny's numbers. Based on conversations with seasonal Canadians down here and on my travels to Syracuse, taxes, prices, variety of stores and selection of items in Ottawa pale in comparison to that of Syracuse, particularly Destiny. Speaking with a couple of friendly girls returning to Ottawa from Las Vegas on my way to Syracuse, they said they have yet to land a Target, let alone the selection of Destiny. Both were staying in Syracuse for a couple of days to shop before returning to Ottawa.
I could see this new outlet center in suburban Ottawa serving the same purpose as say Town Center in Fayetteville, or Great Northern for quick local shopping. Taxes and prices in Canada will avert any impact on the Syracuse area retailers, even with the price of gas.
The tenants already announced for the mall consist strictly of outlets and a couple of restaurants that are found in all of the major cities within 350 miles of Syracuse.
Who the hell is going to drive 350 miles to go shopping or go to an adult arcade? Seriously! It would cost you a small fortune just in gas and then about 6 hours (maybe more) to get there? Yeah, lemme get right on that!
Who the hell is going to drive 350 miles to go shopping or go to an adult arcade? Seriously! It would cost you a small fortune just in gas and then about 6 hours (maybe more) to get there? Yeah, lemme get right on that!
Destiny is currently attracting 20 million visitors per year, 41% from outside the area, 12 percent from Canada. Those percentages may increase should the number of visitors increase to 29 million as suggested by Travel and Leisure and Pyramid. To suggest that no one is going to visit Destiny is a bit inflamatory.
Also, the current or expanded trade area does NOT extend 350 miles as you suggest. None of the major metros are included in the expanded trade area as indicated on the map, unless you want to consider Buffalo and Rochester (which I don't):
Who the hell is going to drive 350 miles to go shopping or go to an adult arcade? Seriously! It would cost you a small fortune just in gas and then about 6 hours (maybe more) to get there? Yeah, lemme get right on that!
I am going to guess you have never been to Mall of America? It is a destination for many.
Destiny is currently attracting 20 million visitors per year, 41% from outside the area, 12 percent from Canada. Those percentages may increase should the number of visitors increase to 29 million as suggested by Travel and Leisure and Pyramid. To suggest that no one is going to visit Destiny is a bit inflamatory.
Also, the current or expanded trade area does NOT extend 350 miles as you suggest. None of the major metros are included in the expanded trade area as indicated on the map, unless you want to consider Buffalo and Rochester (which I don't):
First off, I am not the one who brought up the 350 miles! So I am not suggesting anything. Nice try though. Secondly, I didn't suggest no one was visiting the mall. You're just making that up.
Many of those 20 million visitors are repeat shoppers. It's not like someone living in Cuse is only going to go to the mall once a year.
Just because someone makes a projection doesn't mean it will happen. Sorry, but you're not going to get millions of visits from the Capitol Region. What's Destiny got they don't have? They already have PF Changs, Melting Pot, and Cheesecake Factory. Have for years. Go carting? Yeah, they already had a NASCAR Speedpark in Crossgates and it failed miserably. What shopping will there be that they don't already have or isn't closer?
Very few people say hey let's go to the mall for the weekend and only go to the mall. The visitors they're getting are also going to other places. Many times people end up at the mall during bad weather when taking a trip. Can't tell you how many times I've ended up at the mall during a NASCAR weekend. Track is closed and there's not much to do in a hotel room so we usually find a mall and up seeing many faces we saw at the track the day before including drivers and crew members. Guess we're all so bored with the weather we go to the mall and wander about. Don't really buy anything either....except maybe some lunch.
Let's not forget that Carousel Mall was not Pyramid's first attempt at DestinyUSA. This version is DRAMATICALLY scaled back from what they proposed at Crossgates and it has taken them a good 10 years to finally do this at Carousel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToeJam
I am going to guess you have never been to Mall of America? It is a destination for many.
Nope. I sure wouldn't drive 350 miles to go shopping. And I'm certainly not about to drive over 1300 miles to go shopping either (that's how far MoA is from Albany)! No one I know would do that. With the internet, you really don't need to ever visit a mall again. There are many dead and mostly vacant malls across America today. I'm sure we'll see even more of them become dead and/or vacant over the next decade.
Nope. I sure wouldn't drive 350 miles to go shopping. And I'm certainly not about to drive over 1300 miles to go shopping either (that's how far MoA is from Albany)! No one I know would do that. With the internet, you really don't need to ever visit a mall again. There are many dead and mostly vacant malls across America today. I'm sure we'll see even more of them become dead and/or vacant over the next decade.
I think, and only time with prove one way or the other, you are 100% spot on. All this mall talk always makes me wanna tell people "hello 1985 just called they want the mall back".
And I can't see much retail action happening that hasn't been happening anyway. We have a mega crap ton of empty retail around here including several empty malls. Thats not to say retail dollars aren't real dollars, just not new dollars for the area.
Last edited by Sean®; 05-15-2012 at 05:23 PM..
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