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For decades Japan's big three automakers have been Toyota, Honda, and Nissan. When looking at global sales that is unchanged, but Honda and Nissan have collapsed severely in America his year, while Subaru sales wen down by only 4.7%
-32.7% Honda 881,201 vehicles sold in the US for 2022
-25.7% Nissan 682,731 vehicles sold in the US for 2022
Subaru US sales peaked pre-pandemic at 700,117 vehicles.
There is some evidence that Nissan's troubles are more chronic than just part shortages. Most of the drop in sales (about 100,000 vehicles) involved the Rogue, Nissan's most popular vehicle. Nissan turbo downsized from a 4 cylinder naturally aspirated 2.5L engine to a 3 cylinder turbocharged 1.5L engine. It doesn't seem to be very popular.
After 2019 Subaru turbo-downsized from a 6 cylinder naturall aspirated 3.3L engine to a 4 cylinder turbocharged 2,4L engine for the Legacy and Outback, and it seems not to have caused any drop in sales.
So presuming that a recovery occurs this year, we may see Subaru pull ahead of Nissan for US sales.
Subaru has definitely been ascending. They still have a ways to go to pass Nissan though.
Maybe I'm just not paying attention, but I don't seem to see a lot of Nissans on the road in Massachusetts. I do notice them when I travel in rental car fleets as a bargain vehicle offering - think they do a lot of fleet sales.
Subaru has definitely been ascending. They still have a ways to go to pass Nissan though.
Maybe I'm just not paying attention, but I don't seem to see a lot of Nissans on the road in Massachusetts. I do notice them when I travel in rental car fleets as a bargain vehicle offering - think they do a lot of fleet sales.
Definitely possible. It's not really clear what position Nissan holds for Renault. They're under pressure to show increased profitability and Nissan and in particular Mitsubishi are underperforming in that regard. With Nissan being so dependent on Renault for R&D they wouldn't be in a good position if Renault cut the anchor. Honda meanwhile forgot how to build cars in 2022. They remember how to going forward or it might not be a short-term amnesia. Subaru has a long way to go but another couple years of Honda forgetting how to build cars and if Renault cuts Nissan to appease shareholders demands for profitability I could see it. On the other hand if those things don't both happen Subaru's growth has slowed significantly since 2015. Subaru isn't in a great place particularly on EVs. They're right now relying on Toyota to build them for them which is, well, worse than Honda's position of having GM build EVs for them. The first Subaru EVs are supposedly coming in 2027 but those always seem to take longer than anticipated.
It may not happen since Subaru's lineup is too small to match up against the top 3. It's not in their DNA to make large fleet vehicles. I've not seen a single Subaru used for fleet.
They still have a ways to go to pass Nissan though.
Globally Nissan has three times the revenue of Subaru. But Subaru gets it's revenue
73.0% from US and Canada
18.2% from Japan
8.8% from elsewhere.
US sales in number of vehicles were
682,731 Nissan in 2022 down from 1,593,464 for 2017
556,581 Subaru in 2022 down from 647,956 fo 2017
So even though Subaru was down 18.5% from Nissan last year, historically Nissan ha been crashing for 5 years, whereas Subaru was improving before being cut off by the pandemic.
But I think you can make a case that Subaru will quickly bounce back once production issues ease up. It looks like Nissan's problems are much deeper than supply chain issues. The Rogue was 60% of Nissan SUV sales in 2021. It is starting to look like Nissan screwed that engine change very badly.
Nissan's saving grace is he All-New 2023 Nissan ARIYA® starting at Starting MSRP $43,190 (Range up To 304 MILES with an 87 kWh battery, and 0-60 in 4.8 SECONDS) is looking a lot sexier than the Solterra.
Last edited by PacoMartin; 01-08-2023 at 08:37 PM..
Subaru has definitely been ascending. They still have a ways to go to pass Nissan though.
Maybe I'm just not paying attention, but I don't seem to see a lot of Nissans on the road in Massachusetts. I do notice them when I travel in rental car fleets as a bargain vehicle offering - think they do a lot of fleet sales.
I have a ton of miles in Hertz Altimas over the years. An adequate "F" class appliance. Hertz gave me a Legacy sedan once back in 2010 that I drove to Sherbrooke QC for a meeting. That's the only time I ever had a Subaru as a fleet car. 2010 was the first year of the bigger Legacy and Outback. It put the Outback on my radar screen as a likely next car. I grew up in a Subaru household. I'm 6'2". I never fit in them.
In New England, I'm confident that Subaru outsells Nissan.
Subaru doesn't make a real SUV........ sure they have the 3 row Ascent wagon but buyers don't look at that as an SUV like a Honda Pilot/CRV or Nissan Pathfinder/Armada.
Subaru is looked at as a wagon/sedan manufacturer. Honda/Nissan make a bunch of crossovers.
Subaru doesn't make a real SUV........ sure they have the 3 row Ascent wagon but buyers don't look at that as an SUV like a Honda Pilot/CRV or Nissan Pathfinder/Armada. Subaru is looked at as a wagon/sedan manufacturer.
With the exceptin of the Nissan Armada, the Subaru SUVs are a little lighter than the Nissan SUVs, but they don't seem like a different class of vehicle.
I am wondering if you form that opinion because of the 4 cylinders and the CVT?
In Subaru's global report, they combine worldwide sales statistics for the Impreza and the Crosstrek. The Crosstrek clearly dominates sales over the Impreza in the US, but I don't know the ratio in Japan, Canada, Australia and elsewhere.
There is a persistent rumor that US Crosstreks for model year 2024 will be outfitted solely with the 4 cylinder 2.5 liter engine entirely.
The new RS1 traim Impreza will use the 4 cylinder 2.5 liter engine. The 4 cylinder 2.0 liter engine will be used exclusively for the Base and Sport trim of the Impreza in 2024.
The Base Impreza will provide an affordable "entry level" for potential Subaru buyers who want inexpensive AWD, and is priced at $21,595 for a 2023 5 door with CVT.
Subaru doesn't make a real SUV........ sure they have the 3 row Ascent wagon but buyers don't look at that as an SUV like a Honda Pilot/CRV or Nissan Pathfinder/Armada.
Subaru is looked at as a wagon/sedan manufacturer. Honda/Nissan make a bunch of crossovers.
What do the other cars have that Subaru doesn't? How soon do they need to be replaced? Do any of them come with more in mind to work and less in mind to be a toy?
The Forester I've had for over a score got 25 mpg when I bought it......and still get 25 mpg. It has been thru a rear ending with it being the lead in a 3 car affair and a deer strike.....and is still going.
It looks like for what I am looking at to have what I had before is the Wilderness (14K increase over 20 years, I suppose that is reasonable) but ......... sigh.
Whether or not here is the place for the answers I need or not, it still comes down to that our needs are different.....and not all cars are the same.
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