Subaru Forester with EJ25 (2009-10)

[StvCt066]

Over the years I've had 6 Subarus, 8 counting those my sons owned but initially my name was on the title. I don't have one now, but am considering a 2009-10 Forester. The EJ25 engine (as those familiar with Subarus know) has a reputation for needing head gasksets and a timing belt change. While the FB25 engine has a timing chain and is supposedly not as prone to head gasket failures, they tend to use oil. With the 0W-20 synthetic oil called for, that could be an extra $10-$20 a month. Subaru has probably replaced thousands of the FB25 short blocks, or lower part of the engine in and out of warranty.

That's why I'm favoring the 2009-10 years with the EJ25 engine. Subarus still appeal to me. I have a 1999 Honda Accord now. I have a company vehicle, but hope to change jobs in a while which is why I may be needing something newer. The Honda is great, my only regret is it has a timing belt, rather than chain, and I don't know if/when it was replaced.

There's a dealership in my state that claims to replace the timing belt and head gaskets on every Subaru they sell. They are priced higher because of that, but considering they warranty the engine for a year the prices are reasonable IMO. The other concern and reputation all Subaru engines have is spun bearings, and/or thrown rods. Typically they're in turbos and other high performance models like the WRX and STI, but you'll hear about them in normally aspirated engines.

I wonder common is a spun bearing in these engines? Reports on other forums state it's happened to owners that kept up with oil changes and checked the level. If I do make a change, currently it's a hard decision. My other choice, maybe a better one is a Honda CR-V from 2005-2011 or so. Subarus still appeal to me which is why I'm doing research and seeing what other's experiences are.

[PacoMartin]

Originally Posted by StvCt066

The EJ25 engine (as those familiar with Subarus know) has a reputation for needing head gasksets and a timing belt change.

As someone who is trying to nurse a 14 year old EJ253 engine a few more years the best advice seems to be religiously change your motor oil, coolant fluid and batteries.

1. unburnt fuel is scraped past the rings into the crankcase where it is mixed with the engine oil. The longer the oil is in the engine the more diluted the oil becomes with fuel. Fuel is a solvent that can eat away at seals and gaskets.
2. corrosive coolant can deteriorate seals and gaskets over time.
3. the battery is located very close to the radiator. The electrical system in the car is grounded to the engine block on the left side of the engine, as the ground circuit resistance increases (from corroded battery cables), the voltage found in the cooling system will also increase and will cause electrolysis.

[StvCt066]

Fortunately as you know the oil and filter are relatively easy to change on the EJ engines. The FB has the filter on top! Yes all of the above are certainly factors. I've seen reports of the EJ engines exceeding 200k miles, those must have been cared for as noted above. Interesting to note about the unburnt fuel getting mixed with the oil, that's a condition I haven't heard of but makes sense.

It seems the thrown rod situation isn't very common except for the high performance models. You'll see it mentioned somewhat often on WRX forums. Ironically turbo EJ25 engines tend to not have as many head gasket failures due to the head gasket being different than the normally aspirated engines.

[PacoMartin]

Originally Posted by StvCt066

I've seen reports of the EJ engines exceeding 200k miles, those must have been cared for as noted above.

My brother's wife has had a Subaru Forester since they were married in 2003 and it is just now approaching 100K miles. The Engine is an EJ251, while my mother had an EJ253 engine in a 2007 Impreza with 60K miles.

My mother is in her mid 80's and it would be nice to nurse this car until she doesn't need a car anymore. She's driven it less than 5000 miles per year for ten years now. The 5000 miles is significant in Pennsylvania since under 5000 miles exempts you from Emissions Inspection Program. I don't know if it would have trouble passing, but after ten years I am not that anxious to find out. I'm hoping to keep the fluids fresh and see how long it lasts given the ~60K miles on it now.

But my sister in law is in her mid 40's. I have suggested to my brother that he consider selling the vehicle now at ~100K before head gasket failures begin and the car is worthless.

I have that the original head gaskets on a Subaru 2.5 engine tend to fail between 100,000 and 150,000 miles.

What would you do?

[StvCt066]

Interesting re: not requiring emissions if driving under 5000 miles. I wish that was the case where I live in Conn., I have a company van so would fall into that category. I was fortunate that my 1999 Honda Accord passed emissions in 2020.

Hopefully your mother's car will be fine until she can't or doesn't want to drive. Not sure if age of the engine is a factor, but seems the Impreza won't hit the 105k mile timing belt replacement interval. Changing the oil as you do may help prolong the head gaskets.

For your sister's car - if it was me I'd get the head gaskets replaced when the time comes. Looking back I wish I kept my 2002 Forester S, the air conditioning stopped working and assumed the head gaskets would be another repair. Still, better than a new car payment as long as the rest of the vehicle seems good, which was the case.

That's about right from what I've heard - head gaskets tending to fail on the EJ25 between 100,000 and 150,000 miles. My Forester had 129k, occasionally smelled anti-freeze and would add some, but not excessive.

Silly question - what's the difference between the EJ251 and EJ253?

[PacoMartin]

Originally Posted by StvCt066

Silly question - what's the difference between the EJ251 and EJ253?

There is only a difference of 3 horsepower, but the EJ253 attempted to fix the head gasket problem, but was only partly successful
EJ251: 165 hp at 5600 rpm: 167 lbâ‹…ft of torque at 4400 rpm
EJ253: 162 hp at 5600 rpm: 167 lbâ‹…ft of torque at 4400 rpm.

The models affected by head gasket failures are the

• Impreza from 1999 to 2011,
• Legacy from 2000-2009.
• Outback from 2000-2011,
• Forester from 1999-2010,

As I understand it, the problem was considered eliminated for Impreza and Outback in model year 2012 when they used an entirely new engine

EJ25D
For the Japanese Domestic Market, the EJ25D was advertised from Jan 1994, and available from October 1994 .
There were two variations of the EJ25D sold in the US market. The engine was introduced in 1996.

EJ251
Flat four EJ251
The EJ251SOHC was the first version of a long line of single overhead cam engines by Subaru for the US market.

The EJ251 commonly experienced head gasket failures resulting in interior channel breaches or exterior fluid leaks due to the continued use of a single layer coated gasket first introduced on the EJ25D.

Usage: EJ251 in the United States
Impreza 98-03 (excludes 99)
Legacy 99-04
Outback 00-04
Forester 99-04

EJ252
SOHC The EJ252 was only briefly used in North America alongside the EJ251 in the USDM Legacy Outback for the 2000 and 2001 Model Years.

EJ253
Intake volume is regulated by use of a mass (air) flow sensor (MAF) sensor, unlike the EJ251 which is regulated by a manifold absolute pressure (MAP) sensor.

The EJ251 was soon replaced by the EJ253 in many models due to its improved cooling to aid in head gasket life and improved engine management and sensors.

Usage EJ 253 in the United States
Impreza 99 and 04-11
Legacy 05-11
Outback 05-11
Forester 99 and 05-10

Originally Posted by StvCt066

Interesting re: not requiring emissions if driving under 5000 miles. I wish that was the case where I live in Conn., I have a company van so would fall into that category. I was fortunate that my 1999 Honda Accord passed emissions in 2020.

The mileage accrued on my mother's car exceeded 5000 miles only the first three years. The low mileage also seems to have delayed the problems with the head gasket.

Oct 2, 20 | 2,019 miles
Aug 28, 19 | 2,105
Aug 30, 18 | 3,060
Jul 10, 17 | 3,225
Aug 1, 16 | 3,854
Aug 5, 15 | 4,370
Jul 30, 14 | 3,644
Aug 16, 13 | 3,094
Aug 15, 12 | 3,910
Aug 17, 11 | 3,217
Aug 24, 10 | 6,673
Jun 5, 09 | 10,391
Jul 1, 08 | 8,855

AFAIK the low mileage exemption is unique to Pennsylvania. We still have to take it to an inspection station and they can still charge you, as they must check if the odometer was tampered with and give you the stickers. But you don't have to submit your vehicle test. The honest stations only charge you $20 if you are exempt instead of the full rate.

Pennsylvania requires annual emissions tests in 16 of 67 counties (80% of state population).

Exempt counties are often the sign of states that really don't want to do emissions testing, but were forced to by the EPA. Many states only require emissions testing in highly populated counties, and exempt others.

1. ARIZONA
2. COLORADO
3. GEORGIA
4. IDAHO
5. ILLINOIS
6. INDIANA
7. LOUISIANA
8. MAINE
9. MARYLAND
10. MISSOURI
11. NEVADA
12. NEW MEXICO
13. NORTH CAROLINA
14. OHIO
15. OREGON
16. PENNSYLVANIA
17. TENNESSEE
18. TEXAS
19. UTAH
20. VIRGINIA
21. WISCONSIN

An additional 20 (mostly small states) do not require emissions testing. Florida is the only highly populated state that does not require emissions testing.

States that require all their vehicles in all counties to undergo emissions testing are relatively few. They include
California
Massachussets
Connecticut
Vermont
New Hampshire
Rhode Island
New York

[PacoMartin]

Originally Posted by PacoMartin

The models affected by head gasket failures are the

• Impreza from 1999 to 2011,
• Legacy from 2000-2009.
• Outback from 2000-2011,
• Forester from 1999-2010,

This article in Consumer Reports narrow down the worst affected models. However, I should point out that we previously owned a 2003 Subaru Legacy which developed head gasket problems right around 108K miles.

If you are shopping for a previously owned Subaru, there are some models to avoid or it could cost you a lot of money in repairs. The most expensive repairs on an older vehicle are an engine rebuild and transmission replacement. Consumer Reports (by subscription) lists the cars most likely to need another expensive repair, a head gasket replacement.

They have identified four popular Subaru models with the potential to have this engine issue. CR says the
2001-2009 Subaru Forester,
2001-2009 Subaru Outback,
2006-2008 Subaru Impreza, and the
2006 Subaru Baja are more likely to need the head gaskets replaced than other models.

A follow up article just published says to also avoid the 2011 Subaru Impreza
By Denis Flierl Jul 7 2020 : The 4 Subaru Models Most Likely To Need Expensive Engine Repairs
By Denis Flier Jun 7 2021: The One Subaru Model Most Likely To Need An Expensive Head Gasket Repair

As I said in the last post, in model year 2012 Subaru completed discontinued the EJ25 engines and replaced it with an entirely new engine. This ended the problem completely.

[StvCt066]

Interesting comprehensive information. The Forester got the FB25 in 2011, the Outback in 2013. Supposedly a totally redesigned cooling system that should eliminate the head gasket failure. From what I've heard not 100%, but a heck of a lot.
As it's widely known the early (not sure for how many years, at least till 2014 I believe) the new situation was excessive oil consumption. Subaru has replaced (just from what I read) over a thousand short blocks. Hopefully for the customer, under warranty. I've heard of cases where they'd give the customer somewhat of a break if it was soon out of warranty.

[PacoMartin]

Originally Posted by StvCt066

Interesting comprehensive information. The Forester got the FB25 in 2011, the Outback in 2013. Supposedly a totally redesigned cooling system that should eliminate the head gasket failure. From what I've heard not 100%, but a heck of a lot.

In the FB25 there is no coolant in contact with the head gaskets. If it is not 100% free from failure, it is because no automobie is 100% free from head gasket failure.

[StvCt066]

True, 100% is an unrealistic goal or assumption.

The other advantage is a timing chain instead of a belt, but it seems overall this engine is much more troublesome than the EJ25. Subaru engines have been known to have defective rods, that can many times be attributed to low oil levels. I've seen reports of failures still happening in the FB25, maybe partly due to the fact the oil level was low without the owners suspecting it.

I'd be checking my oil regularly, but I've seen reports that a thousand or two miles after an oil change there was a rod failure. I's like to own a Subaru again, there are many advantages to the vehicles but these concerns persist. I guess these can be considered exceptions, but occasionally on Subaru forums I'll see posts with EJ25 engines with over 200k miles. Then there's the report of one approaching or exceeding 300k miles - those are from the 90s or 80s with the 2.2L or 1.8L engine.