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Old 04-30-2010, 01:07 PM
 
2,994 posts, read 5,777,779 times
Reputation: 1822

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Recently, Guenter Lewy of the University of Massachusetts set out to
write a book entitled Why America Doesn't Need Religion. He wanted the
book to be "a defense of secular humanism and ethical relativism."
Lewy is not a Christian and does not believe in God. But he was
determined to offer his results as objectively as possible.


As Lewy assembled his extensive research, he received a surprise. He
found himself forced to conclude that Christianity has a record of
strong support for social justice and human dignity. Other research
forced him to conclude that Christians at that time constantly showed
a lower rate than non Christians of the behaviors associated with
social ills and moral failure. These include divorce, domestic
violence, out of wedlock births, adult crime and juvenile
delinquency.
He finally concluded, from other studies, that people who actually
live the Christian life have higher rates of happiness and are
healthier. The final title of his book is Why America Needs
Religion.

Christians should not be fearful about living out their faith, even
among unbelievers. As they live out their faith, God is not only
blessing them, but also the unbelievers who surround them.




References: Charles Colson, "The Gospel according to Jesse: Is
religion a crutch?" Minnesota Christian Chronicle, December 2, 1999,
p.
16.
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Old 04-30-2010, 01:09 PM
 
Location: Colorado
9,986 posts, read 18,679,491 times
Reputation: 2178
Why am I never part of these studies or polls!!!!
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Old 04-30-2010, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 12,926,738 times
Reputation: 3767
As an ardent atheist, I'd still agree with his general conclusion. Society in general needs a system of enforced discipline and obedience. Too bad there are those who so happily and greedily took advantage of their higher levels of knowledge to foster a system of fear-mongering.

Since many within our culture are intellectually lazy, and actually prefer to have others do the heavy intellectual lifting for them, and to come up with convenient rules of behavior and tithing, organized religion has, indeed, flourished.

What should not be allowed, however, is for religion to enforce or ingrain their ancient supernatural ideas on our children, by mandated education, or through attendance to Sunday School. We're all entitled to our own beliefs, as long as they don't harm the intellectual freedom of others. That's hardly what the church or Christianity has historically attempted.

What's the OP's intent? To defend Christianity in toto? No-one's attacking it's social involvement or community outreach programs. What we do attack is it's insistence and broadcasting of outdated, disproved theories, it's relentless attacks on science, and it's outright dismissal of reality to the detriment of the citizenry.

BTW, on a technical point, your author's work is fatally flawed if it tries to assert any significant improvement in Christian's ethic and achievements over those of atheists. In fact, by many independent and credible studies that have been quoted in C-D in the past, Christians suffer from a higher medical mortality (folks pray instead of taking functional means to treat their diseases, or have medical treatment withheld from their luckless children because of fervent religious beliefs that God will intercede.... sigh), their divorce rate, when their marriage was supposedly blessed by God, is significantly (about 10%) higher than that of atheists, there are far more devout Christians in prison than out, the priesthood is now famously tainted by errant behavior, and Christian missionaries have ruined many a happy and functioning aboriginal culture, and have fomented so much more global hatred and war than atheists have ever acheived.

Now please do not smugly note that a few famous nasties like Stalin and Mao were atheists. That was hardly THE reason for their aberrant behavior. Many atrocities have been done in the name of God. The Inquisition and the Crusades readily come to mind. And of course, Einstein, Sagan, Bertrand Russell, Churchill and many other cultural intellectuals are notable atheists. Their personal behavior does not necessarily attend their spiritual beliefs. Hitler, after all, was a Christian!
________________________________

NOTE: I do keep asking the question, and don't ever get an answer: if Christianity's an absolute necessity, how come so many of us atheists, and even many acclaimed Christians, have literally nothing functional to do with their religion on a daily, weekly or yearly basis, and yet they seem to manage quite well without Godly intervention or advice? Why did He leave us to our own devices, and many of us do quite well without, thank you very much?

Just how, exactly, have I survived for well over 45 years since I carefully evaluated and then unceremoniously dumped Christianity as meaningless in my life, and yet I have achieved career success, personal happiness, a high education level and an unencumbered understanding of the natural world? Tell me: how?

Alternately, could the devout Christians here get along without any further prayerful contact with their Lord God?

Last edited by rifleman; 04-30-2010 at 01:55 PM..
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Old 04-30-2010, 01:36 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,567 posts, read 37,175,863 times
Reputation: 14021
Quote:
Originally Posted by 007.5 View Post
Recently, Guenter Lewy of the University of Massachusetts set out to
write a book entitled Why America Doesn't Need Religion. He wanted the
book to be "a defense of secular humanism and ethical relativism."
Lewy is not a Christian and does not believe in God. But he was
determined to offer his results as objectively as possible.


As Lewy assembled his extensive research, he received a surprise. He
found himself forced to conclude that Christianity has a record of
strong support for social justice and human dignity. Other research
forced him to conclude that Christians at that time constantly showed
a lower rate than non Christians of the behaviors associated with
social ills and moral failure. These include divorce, domestic
violence, out of wedlock births, adult crime and juvenile
delinquency.
When was "At that time"? What happened since that time, because all of these things he mentions are now higher in the Christian community.
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Old 04-30-2010, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Log home in the Appalachians
10,607 posts, read 11,667,197 times
Reputation: 7012
Sort of reminds me of North Korea where the leader says worship me or else and instills military discipline and propaganda lies to back it up..
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Old 04-30-2010, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,443 posts, read 12,809,545 times
Reputation: 2497
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
As an ardent atheist, I'd still agree with his general conclusion. Society in general needs a system of enforced discipline and obedience. Too bad there are those who so happily and greedily took advantage of their higher levels of knowledge to foster a system of fear-mongering.

Since many within our culture are intellectually lazy, and actually prefer to have others do the heavy intellectual lifting for them, and to come up with convenient rules of behavior and tithing, organized religion has, indeed, flourished.

What should not be allowed, however, is for religion to enforce or ingrain their ancient supernatural ideas on our children, by mandated education, or through attendance to Sunday School. We're all entitled to our own beliefs, as long as they don't harm the intellectual freedom of others. That's hardly what the church or Christianity has historically attempted.

What's the OP's intent? To defend Christianity in toto? No-one's attacking it's social involvement or community outreach programs. What we do attack is it's insistence and broadcasting of outdated, disproved theories, it's relentless attacks on science, and it's outright dismissal of reality to the detriment of the citizenry.
Children are too immature to make such serious decisions. It's a parent's duty to teach his/her children what they believe is right. When a child gets older, they can decide for themselves.
________________________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
NOTE: I do keep asking the question, and don't ever get an answer: if Christianity's an absolute necessity, how come so many of us atheists, and even many acclaimed Christians, have literally nothing functional to do with their religion on a daily, weekly or yearly basis, and yet they seem to manage quite well without Godly intervention or advice? Why did He leave us to our own devices, and many of us do quite well without, thank you very much?

Just how, exactly, have I survived for well over 45 years since I carefully evaluated and then unceremoniously dumped Christianity as meaningless in my life, and yet I have achieved career success, personal happiness, a high education level and an unencumbered understanding of the natural world? Tell me: how?

Alternately, could the devout Christians here get along without any further prayerful contact with their Lord God?
Christians believe we (mankind) live forever. This life is like a training ground of sorts. What we do in this life, by placing our faith in the redemptive work of Jesus, and then living out the Christian life, prepares us for eternity. This life is but a whisper; eternity is forever. You can survive & actually succeed (by man's standards) in this life without Christ, but what about the life to come?

C. S. Lewis, atheist turned Christian, wrote much about this in his book "Mere Christianity".
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Old 04-30-2010, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,138 posts, read 22,835,296 times
Reputation: 14116
Religion does have benefits to some individuals and society in general... but that doesn't make it true. That is all Guenter is saying.

But if it isn't true, it's no good for me. I am not willing to delude myself to be happy.
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Old 04-30-2010, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Metromess
11,798 posts, read 25,204,174 times
Reputation: 5220
I noted the reference given in the OP: Charles Colson. Does that ring any bells? The Watergate break-in criminal who had a jailhouse conversion?

jimmiej: We all know what Christians believe. If one does not believe in "a life to come", that carrot means nothing. Neither does the stick of eternal suffering.
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Old 04-30-2010, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,443 posts, read 12,809,545 times
Reputation: 2497
Quote:
Originally Posted by catman View Post

jimmiej: We all know what Christians believe. If one does not believe in "a life to come", that carrot means nothing. Neither does the stick of eternal suffering.
Obviously, rifleman didn't or he wouldn't have asked numerous times.
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Old 04-30-2010, 02:22 PM
 
30,902 posts, read 33,034,899 times
Reputation: 26919
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
Religion does have benefits to some individuals and society in general... but that doesn't make it true. That is all Guenter is saying.

But if it isn't true, it's no good for me. I am not willing to delude myself to be happy.
Then don't! What god would want someone to fake his or her love anyway? I believe in God but I also firmly believe that there is no way to "force" belief. There just isn't. How could there be?

So good on you for standing on your convictions whatever they may be. IMO, honesty can't ever be bad.
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