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I could go on and on but try to answer these questions before writing anything else:
-Is is it a sin to lie?
-Have you ever eaten pork?
-Have you ever eaten any shellfish like, shrimp, crabs or lobsters?
-Have you ever gotten a haircut or shaved?
-Have you ever had sex with a woman while menstruating?
-Have you ever told someone something one day and they tell someone thinking it was the same thing but completely distorted?
-How many biblical sins have you committed?
Passages in 1 Samuel & 2 Samuel describe, among other events, a extremely close bond between David and Jonathan. Jonathan was the son of King Saul, and next in line for the throne. But Samuel anointed David to be the next king. This produced a strong conflict in the mind of Saul.
Interpretation:
Religious conservatives generally view the friendship of David and Jonathan as totally non-sexual. They find it inconceivable that God would allow a famous king of Israel to be a homosexual.
Some religious liberals believe that David and Jonathan had a consensual homosexual relationship - in many ways, a prototype of many of today's gay partnerships. 7 Some important verses which describe their relationship are:
1 Samuel 18:1
"...Jonathan became one in spirit with David and he loved him as himself." (NIV)
"...the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul" (KJV)
Most translations use the term "soul" rather than "spirit" to describe the bond. They speak of an "immediate bond of love", their souls being "in unison," their souls being "knit" etc. Genesis 2:7, as written in the original Hebrew, describes how God blew the spirit into the body of Adam that God had formed from earth, so that Adam became a living soul. This means that "soul", in the ancient Israelite times, represents a combination of body and spirit. Thus the two men appear to have loved each other both physically and emotionally.
1 Samuel 18:2
"From that day, Saul kept David with him and did not let him return to his father's house." (NIV)
David left his parent's home and moved to Saul's where he would be with Jonathan. This is a strong indication that the relationship was extremely close. It echoes the passage marriage passage in Genesis 2:24: "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh."
1 Samuel 18:3-4
"And Jonathan made a covenant with David because he loved him as himself. Jonathan took off the robe he was wearing and gave it to David, along with his tunic, and even his sword, his bow and his belt." (NIV)
Since people in those days did not wear underwear, Jonathan stripped himself naked in front of David. That would be considered extremely unusual behavior (then and now) unless their relationship was sexual in nature.
I found a letter I sent out a last year while BUSH was in office to some real ladies:
Dear Dr. Laura and Ann Coulter,
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's law. I have learned a great deal from you, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate!
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them. I don't know if I am on the same page as you are.
When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. How should I deal with this? Can I come to your homes and have a bull roast? I am sure you wouldn't mind.
I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as it suggests in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her? I can really use the money since President Bush party is doing so much to help the cause of the middle class.
I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense. Have you ever been contacted by anyone during your period?
Lev. 25:44 states that I may buy slaves from the nations that are around us. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Besides, the Canadian Dollar is so strong right now, one of them actually had the nerve to ask if I could clean their house in Hollywood, FL. The nerve!
A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? I really do miss eating mussels.
Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die? I say close down all barbers and and hair salons across the globe.
I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev.20:14) Jeez, it gets soooo complicated!
I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself or would either of you like to do that for me?
With all the love in my heart,
"Searching for a better way of life"
p.s. I am praying for the both of you all the time. As Ann Coulter once said on a talk show that, Christianity is kind of a fast track program and that Christians consider themselves perfected Jews. Ann, you know how to say the sweetest things.
Why is this crazy as **** book that telling us being gay, eating Pork, seeing a woman's flow, eating shell fish, and owning slaves so widely used to spit on gays? It's just f---ed up! One has to cherry pick what one believes in this book. Our own prejudices allows us to use what we like and what we dont like. My main opinion is that if gays have been reportedly around for over 10,000+ years then it's a normal occurrence in humanity and should be treated as such.
The Bible does not tell us anything about being gay.
It does clearly forbid practicing homosexual acts. It was never about 'being', but about doing.
During a time when little was understood about food-born disease Pork was forbidden from being eaten, as well as shell fish, and then in later eras that prohibition was lifted. A wise thing, though now past.
"seeing a woman's flow" is not forbidden to my knowledge. However doing anything where you got someone else' blood on you did require special cleansing.
Slaves that spit on homosexuals? I do not know what your saying with that?
Feel free to pick any fruit you wish, it has little to do with me.
Quote:
... My main opinion is that if gays have been reportedly around for over 10,000+ years then it's a normal occurrence in humanity and should be treated as such.
I am glad that you have your own opinion.
Quote:
... Now back to your responses to me:
You wrote: "Even though the Bible makes references to different time zones?"
Where does the Bible talk about time zones and what does that have to do with the fact people believed the world was flat? People believed the world was flat long after the Bible was written!
'flat-earth' mythology is fascinating isn't it? Some cultures may have actually thought it was so, and yet history tells us that many cultures did not.
When choosing metaphors the Author of the Bible was always very careful. When expressing infinity for example, saying the distance between two points would in fact be a finite distance.
Like if we said the distance between North and South. Well that is a finite distance. There is a North as a place, and there is a South, between those two places is a finite distance.
However when saying 'As far as the East is from the West" we express infinity. There is no location known as East or West, they are directions. As directions they each go on endlessly. However an author would have to know and understand that East and West were both infinite before using them is such a context.
Or when discussing an event that will happen in an instant everywhere. The myth that everyone lived on a 'flat-earth' would cause you to think that everyone would be doing the same things in that instance.
But saying that in this one instance some folks will be rising up from their beds, and others will be out in their fields working mid-day, and others will be laying down to sleep. Does imply a knowledge and acceptance, that different peoples are living in different time-zones all at the same time.
Metaphors were very carefully chosen by the Author of the Bible.
Quote:
... You wrote: "So the Essenes [who pre-dated Jesus], who made copying the holy books their focus, really did not exist?"
I do not doubt that the Essenes existed. BTW ... I never made any mention of Essenes in my post, ...
You said: "FACT: The Bible was originally written long after Jesus' death."
And now you deny writing this, hmm.
Quote:
... So don't make me a liar to make yourself look good. Is that a sin to lie, by the way?
Quoting you is a sin?
hmm.
You seem to be very much caught up in this sin-consciousness. This is sin, that is sin, everywhere a sin, sin, ...
Relax, everyone sins. It happens. And we have redemption from it all.
Quote:
... Imagine the misinterpretations that existed as modern languages (plural) were trying to TRANSLATE stories that were left up to interpretation to begin with.
Anyhow..my point is, someone can write a paragraph stating that GOD said to me that straight people should be stoned for eating at RED LOBSTER (i.e. shellfish). But does it mean it's true? I mean, come on!
Which is why it is handy to keep original languages going, and the texts in those languages.
Quote:
... I could go on and on but try to answer these questions before writing anything else:
-Is is it a sin to lie?
-Have you ever eaten pork?
-Have you ever eaten any shellfish like, shrimp, crabs or lobsters?
-Have you ever gotten a haircut or shaved?
-Have you ever had sex with a woman while menstruating?
-Have you ever told someone something one day and they tell someone thinking it was the same thing but completely distorted?
-How many biblical sins have you committed?
I am a sinner, everyone is.
Again many of the Mosaic laws that you quote and mis-quote I am relieved from. You see I am not an Israelite.
I do eat pork and shellfish, because I am allowed to.
I have stopped shaving though.
"Have you ever had sex with a woman while menstruating?"
I do not think so, no.
"Have you ever told someone something one day and they tell someone thinking it was the same thing but completely distorted?"
What? I have no idea what this is. Or how it applies to me.
The Old Testament was out schoolmaster, it taught right and wrong. It gives examples of each too. And it shows us that we are all in sin.
Then time progressed, today we have an atonement given for us, for all of that sin.
Today, many of those laws have been waived for us. As to the rest, we have forgiveness available to us.
I found a letter I sent out a last year while BUSH was in office to some real ladies:
You wrote this letter?
We used to watch 'Westwing' too. We really enjoyed it.
The following of course is a partial script from that TV show.
And it has since made the rounds of e-mail many times too.
Quote:
...
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's law. I have learned a great deal from you, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate!
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them. I don't know if I am on the same page as you are.
When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. How should I deal with this? Can I come to your homes and have a bull roast? I am sure you wouldn't mind.
I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as it suggests in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her? I can really use the money since President Bush party is doing so much to help the cause of the middle class.
I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense. Have you ever been contacted by anyone during your period?
Lev. 25:44 states that I may buy slaves from the nations that are around us. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Besides, the Canadian Dollar is so strong right now, one of them actually had the nerve to ask if I could clean their house in Hollywood, FL. The nerve!
A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? I really do miss eating mussels.
Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die? I say close down all barbers and and hair salons across the globe.
I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev.20:14) Jeez, it gets soooo complicated!
I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself or would either of you like to do that for me?
With all the love in my heart,
"Searching for a better way of life"
p.s. I am praying for the both of you all the time. As Ann Coulter once said on a talk show that, Christianity is kind of a fast track program and that Christians consider themselves perfected Jews. Ann, you know how to say the sweetest things.
Back then they still had a dowry (still do in a lot of parts of the world). The groom would pay the mother and father of the bride for their virgin daughter. The girls knew what would happen if her parents took the dowry and she got busted being a ho'. And that's all I have to say about that.
(P.S. In the NT Jesus says Let he who is without sin cast the first stone--and Paul had the vision where the sky curled up and God told him don't call any animal I made unclean. So hush up about Red Lobster.)
If the book of Deuteronomy is supposedly written by Moses, I wonder why so many Christians hold him in such a brilliant light. That man sounds downright evil.
Also, I wonder how some Christians can be so aghast at the Islamic practice of stoning when Moses condoned it (Deuteronomy 22:21).
7:53 And every man went unto his own house.
8:1 ¶ Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.
8:2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.
8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
8:4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
8:5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
8:6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8:8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
8:9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
There are many passages in the Bible that do not hold true today.
And therein lies the problem: to cherry-pick or not to cherry-pick?
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