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Location: In the North Idaho woods, still surrounded by terriers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazel Eyes
It's the only explanation they can come up with to give them a reason to reject biblical truths...Scripture says "only a fool says there's no God!"....I've always thought it was more to do with their pride issue...You know, nothing can be smarter than me....:>) I'm a thinker and a Christian and it all started with a step of faith!
Pride? Really? I don't think so. Nor do I believe that a higher IQ necessarilly goes with Atheism. But people who question life in general, who are not satisfied with "faith" and the simple acceptance of what they have been told by others, tend to be of a different mind-set and that inate curiosity to question and know leads them to more education.
It could be intelligence or it could just be a curious mind. It certainly is not a "fool", as your Scripture quote states. There is nothing "foolish" in wanting to know "why?" And when the only answer to "Why?" is a 2000+ year old book, it just does not satisfy many inquiring minds.
Studies have pointed out a correlation between education level and atheism. And it's even more perceptible in science: there are many more atheists amongst scientists than in the average population, and that proportion keeps increasing if you look at the "greater" scientists.
Of course, it depends whether you consider better educated people "more intelligent".
Remember, though, that correlation does not imply causation. Maybe high education causes atheism, but it could also be the other way around - or they're both linked by a third factor, like wealth. You certainly won't become more intelligent simply by turning atheist.
Why do people think atheists are more intelligent? Or people who are educated are less likely to believe in God? There's people out there who are very intelligent and educated and still believe in God, I've seen it myself.
I believe Atheists stand on the sidelines looking in at most religion. They hear the religious people say that they (atheists) are going to Hell for fornicating, murdering, stealing, lying, cheating others, cursing, over drinking and getting drunk, etc, etc, etc, etc.
Atheists notice that many of the professed Christians do exactly the same things, but when put to task on it, they (Fundamentalist) insist it's okay as long as you simply believe on the Lord Jesus or run to a priest once a week and confess, you are still saved.
An open minded Atheist reasons that if indeed there is actually the possiblity of an all knowing amazing God which did create all things, (which could or could not be a possibility) the last thing he would be is a complete imbecile.
I know a man named Randy, probably the smartest person I've met, who was a professor at a college. He was a teacher and a marine also, and he can do math in his head really fast. Math I never knew of, it takes him practically no time to know the answer to.
He also mentioned the word evolution before and sounded like he was in favor of the word, but I forgot why he mentioned it.
Anyway, he told me once that him and his wife, before going to bed, they always do certain things, like watch TV, read, and then he said they pray. He obviously meant that they believe in God and therefore pray.
Why do people think atheists are more intelligent? Or people who are educated are less likely to believe in God? There's people out there who are very intelligent and educated and still believe in God, I've seen it myself.
My sister's IQ is 142 and she's a Christian. It's simplistic to think that you can neatly divide the human race into the stupid people who are religious and the smart people who are atheists. It's also rather arrogant. I see atheists as just being more open minded and less willing to conform. Using this forum to view a cross section of believers, atheists, and those in between it's not very difficult to gauge the intelligence of many of them. There's a number of well informed and obviously intelligent members who are both believers and atheists. There's also quite a few people who are just pig headed and flat stupid who fall into both camps. I've read a few posts by atheists that were so damn dumb I was embarrassed for them and it's the same thing with a few of the believers. I've known too many highly intelligent believers to accept the notions that atheists are just smarter.
My sister's IQ is 142 and she's a Christian. It's simplistic to think that you can neatly divide the human race into the stupid people who are religious and the smart people who are atheists. It's also rather arrogant. I see atheists as just being more open minded and less willing to conform. Using this forum to view a cross section of believers, atheists, and those in between it's not very difficult to gauge the intelligence of many of them. There's a number of well informed and obviously intelligent members who are both believers and atheists. There's also quite a few people who are just pig headed and flat stupid who fall into both camps. I've read a few posts by atheists that were so damn dumb I was embarrassed for them and it's the same thing with a few of the believers. I've known too many highly intelligent believers to accept the notions that atheists are just smarter.
I don't buy into the assumption that atheists are more intelligent than believers but I do think that it's a possibility that atheists, in general, are more curious than believers.
Why do people think atheists are more intelligent? Or people who are educated are less likely to believe in God? There's people out there who are very intelligent and educated and still believe in God, I've seen it myself.
This argument is specious at best. The "I knew a religious person once, and he was intelligent!" doesn't really PROVE anything, does it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colossus_Antonis
Again, this just makes no sense.
Actually, you then go on to prove just how "sensical" it is, C_A!.... as in...
No-one becomes an intellectual because they are atheist. Most of the atheists are like theists from various walks of life.
It's just that some intellectuals tend to become atheist.
It's also just that some intellectuals tend to remain theist.
Both statements in total in agreement; the intellectual tends to be far more curious & less accepting of others' thinking, perhaps initially as a simple matter of ego and pride, having been taught to be skeptical and self-directed.
Will this disappoint you guys? Atheism is not the road to intellectual height, never will be. Only individual talent leads to intellect.
No disappointment here. Atheism is just a likely and common outcome of one's use of one's "god-given" intellect (or Darwinian-given, to be more accurate...)
This is getting interesting. First, we suck at sex. Now we suck at intellect. What's next? LOL.
As a species, we will die off by our own arrogant hand. Unfortunately, we'll take down a lot of innocent animals in the process; we already have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill
This whole debate illustrates how differently theists and atheists find out about the world around them.
When something isn't known, Atheists look at the available data and try to find the best evidence to objectively solve the riddle. Theists rely on faith, and ignore the objective data.
Theism is intellectually lazy. It tries to cut corners in the pursuit of knowledge. Instead of relying on empirical test and logic, it asks for faith in the statistically unlikely. That's easy, but it's not accurate. That's why there is an inverse relationship between religiosity and IQ. One needs a sloppy mind to accept the evidence that religion uses to support it's arguments.
Very nicely put, Boxcar. Unpopular, but nice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill
(reffing MysticPhD's patronizing put-down...) That seems like a pretty weak response. Other than sophistry, do you have a point? The part of my quote you highlighted is a non-sequitur from your comment.
Sophistry is Mystic's specialty, I'd say. That and his oft-stated conclusion that all others have suffered from a less enlightened existance and experiential base than he. He comments often that "I used to think like you, before I realized a large, better, more sophisticated reality..." or words to that effect. As he did here, in effect.
How sad for all of us lesser-lings! How WILL we make it, being so ill-equipped to think things through to the ultimate truth of "god", one wonders....
As to Roxolan's comment: " Of course, it depends whether you consider better educated people "more intelligent"."
It's usually the other way around, Roxo, as noted above. More intelligent & well-educated people often want to come to their own conclusions, and by definition they are also better equipped to sort through the nonsense and cut to the nuggets of real truth.
Hence, they tend to be(come) atheists. And their intelligence is generally & immediately obvious here on C-D in their ability to present logical arguments, well organized, and absent mindless, blathering ad hominems where none is justified.
You do realise that this information is worth absolutely nothing, right? Well, unless someone was claiming that all atheists are more intelligent than all Christians, but that's beyond ridiculous. We're talking of averages and statistics, I believe.
Edit: beaten by rifleman
That seems like a pretty weak response. Other than sophistry, do you have a point? The part of my quote you highlighted is a non-sequitur from your comment.
Then tie it back to your opening statement that purports to be distinguishing between atheists and THEISTS . . . you subsequently proceed to bash RELIGIONISTS . . . apparently confusing and conflating the two.
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Some Things Are Just Plain Obvious...
