Christian history - How much does the Christian really know?

[World Citizen]

Originally Posted by Condemned

It seems to be well known that the majority of people who consider themselves Christian know very little about the larger influences that shaped their beliefs over the ages. I now also know that many are probably far worse at knowing anything about church history other than perhaps a passing knowledge of the Protestant Reformation. What I find most interesting, however, is the lack of knowledge of how the Bible itself, notably the New Testament books, were determined and ow they came down to [relatively] modern Christians.

Another poster on another forum said something to the effect of God being creator of the universe so he could have easily preserved his "word." I used to say the same thing and I guess this is used as comfort and trust that somehow, the Bible we have today magically came about and has been magically preserved, word for word, the way God wanted it. There is no need to research anything. God saw to it that everything one needs to know are in those 66 (Protestant), 72 (Catholic) or 81 (Ethiopian) Bibles.

I know it is not the easiest thing for a Christian to give up his faith even with the strongest evidence against their faith, but what do you think would happen if more and more Christians or their churches took the time out to study church history and the various stages and processes involved in shaping their modern faith and biblical canon?

I think that with the internet with sites like these, more and more Christians are becoming more and more educated on the various subjects unbelievers toss out in criticism of their faith and there are just as much prepackaged Christian responses designed to ensure that there appears to be answers to all objections even the popular "God's ways are mysterious so we are not to understand everything" response. What I rarely see, however, are topics dealing with church history from either side even though it is far more recent than many of the things Christians and unbelievers usually debate about.

I didn't read all 79 posts prior to mine so I don't know what's been said thus far. It really doesn't matter what you've discussed... it won't effect my answer.
I just hope I'm not repeating what others have said.

Having said that...

You seem to think that modern Christians need to be well versed on Church History. That is the topic, right?

I personally have read, Here I Stand which was written about the life of Martin Luther. I'm sure you know that Martin Luther is the one responsible for the Reformation -- considered the Father of Protestantism. The book was one step from the original German translation -- which was difficult to read to say the least. I read it with a dictionary in my other hand... Somehow, I stayed with it until the end. I wasn't forced to read it -- neither was it required by a Bible college class.

And,... yes, it was interesting.

But,.. I'll admit that history never was my best subject and the history of the church is no different.

What matters to me is the fact that Christ is alive today and is still in the business of changing people's lives.

It doesn't matter to me that people have wrongly used the Word of God for their own purposes. It doesn't matter that people have twisted it to accomplish all kinds of wrong purposes.

The only thing that matters to me is the one thing that no one can dispute.

God is real. He desires a relationship with His creation.

Until I met Jesus, my life had been nothing but pain. I was abused as a child... my stepfather started supplying me with drugs when I was 11 years old. I left home when I was 15 to get away from him.

Before I met Jesus Christ, I had tried every kind of vice, trying to fill the emptiness -- trying to cover up the pain.

But the day I met Jesus and accepted Him into my life -- I walked out of church a new person. God started a work in my life on that day some 30 years ago... and He's been faithful and just to complete what He started in me.

It's more than just words... it's a life changing reality.

It's not about the church -- it's about a relationship with Jesus Christ.

The history of the church won't change that fact.

[goldengrain]

Originally Posted by World Citizen

I didn't read all 79 posts prior to mine so I don't know what's been said thus far. It really doesn't matter what you've discussed... it won't effect my answer.
I just hope I'm not repeating what others have said.

Having said that...

You seem to think that modern Christians need to be well versed on Church History. That is the topic, right?

I personally have read, Here I Stand which was written about the life of Martin Luther. I'm sure you know that Martin Luther is the one responsible for the Reformation -- considered the Father of Protestantism. The book was one step from the original German translation -- which was difficult to read to say the least. I read it with a dictionary in my other hand... Somehow, I stayed with it until the end. I wasn't forced to read it -- neither was it required by a Bible college class.

And,... yes, it was interesting.

But,.. I'll admit that history never was my best subject and the history of the church is no different.

What matters to me is the fact that Christ is alive today and is still in the business of changing people's lives.

It doesn't matter to me that people have wrongly used the Word of God for their own purposes. It doesn't matter that people have twisted it to accomplish all kinds of wrong purposes.

The only thing that matters to me is the one thing that no one can dispute.

God is real. He desires a relationship with His creation.

Until I met Jesus, my life had been nothing but pain. I was abused as a child... my stepfather started supplying me with drugs when I was 11 years old. I left home when I was 15 to get away from him.

Before I met Jesus Christ, I had tried every kind of vice, trying to fill the emptiness -- trying to cover up the pain.

But the day I met Jesus and accepted Him into my life -- I walked out of church a new person. God started a work in my life on that day some 30 years ago... and He's been faithful and just to complete what He started in me.

It's more than just words... it's a life changing reality.

It's not about the church -- it's about a relationship with Jesus Christ.

The history of the church won't change that fact.

Different religions offer different approaches to God. None is all right and none is all wrong.
It is up to us to find an approach that speaks to our life.
You have obviously found yours and I am sincerely happy for you.
My objection is when Christian fundies insist their religion is the ONLY way for EVERYONE.
As some eastern religions state, men are born with different propensities in life and their is a religious path for each of them.
There are those of us whose expression in life moves more through love or physicality or the intellect.
God does not create us with these unique propensities and then give us only one religion that only suits one personality type.
There is no one path that best suits all of us.
Others will find a life changing experience to God through other means. The goodness created by those opportunities should not be diminished by Christians.

[grdnr]

This is a very good thread, Condemned. And yes there is a WHOLE lot of hidden history that is not discussed. I enjoyed the feedback.

Originally Posted by Condemned

It seems to be well known that the majority of people who consider themselves Christian know very little about the larger influences that shaped their beliefs over the ages. I now also know that many are probably far worse at knowing anything about church history other than perhaps a passing knowledge of the Protestant Reformation. What I find most interesting, however, is the lack of knowledge of how the Bible itself, notably the New Testament books, were determined and ow they came down to [relatively] modern Christians.

Another poster on another forum said something to the effect of God being creator of the universe so he could have easily preserved his "word." I used to say the same thing and I guess this is used as comfort and trust that somehow, the Bible we have today magically came about and has been magically preserved, word for word, the way God wanted it. There is no need to research anything. God saw to it that everything one needs to know are in those 66 (Protestant), 72 (Catholic) or 81 (Ethiopian) Bibles.

I know it is not the easiest thing for a Christian to give up his faith even with the strongest evidence against their faith, but what do you think would happen if more and more Christians or their churches took the time out to study church history and the various stages and processes involved in shaping their modern faith and biblical canon?

I think that with the internet with sites like these, more and more Christians are becoming more and more educated on the various subjects unbelievers toss out in criticism of their faith and there are just as much prepackaged Christian responses designed to ensure that there appears to be answers to all objections even the popular "God's ways are mysterious so we are not to understand everything" response. What I rarely see, however, are topics dealing with church history from either side even though it is far more recent than many of the things Christians and unbelievers usually debate about.

[MrBlueSky_]

Originally Posted by World Citizen

I personally have read, Here I Stand which was written about the life of Martin Luther. I'm sure you know that Martin Luther is the one responsible for the Reformation -- considered the Father of Protestantism.

And of course, he also wrote The Jews and Their Lies which greatly fanned the flames of anti-semitism in Europe and ultimately led to Hitler and the holocaust.

The only thing that matters to me is the one thing that no one can dispute.

God is real. He desires a relationship with His creation.

Actually, this is in fact quite disputable. Considering no God has come down and made itself known to us in any reasonable, rational or reliably verifiable manner, we can hardly make assumptions on what he/she/it desires.

Certainly if such a being, for some strange reason, desired a relationship with US, it could have it with but a word or thought, without all the hocus pocus and "Rube Goldberg" ridiculousness one finds in Christianity and other organized religions.

Until I met Jesus, my life had been nothing but pain. I was abused as a child... my stepfather started supplying me with drugs when I was 11 years old. I left home when I was 15 to get away from him.

Before I met Jesus Christ, I had tried every kind of vice, trying to fill the emptiness -- trying to cover up the pain.

But the day I met Jesus and accepted Him into my life -- I walked out of church a new person. God started a work in my life on that day some 30 years ago... and He's been faithful and just to complete what He started in me.

I'd wager that you would have come to the same conclusion had you entered a church and been introduced to the wonderful savior "Bob" by his faithful followers.

It's more than just words... it's a life changing reality.

It's not about the church -- it's about a relationship with Jesus Christ.

More like group therapy.