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i agree with bold above. My view is that the use of generic language and common principles are more far-reaching. And less prone to being seen as proselytizing, which in my view is inherently distasteful. because it comes across as pushy salesman behavior.
Nope. And most of the Eastern schools of thought don't specifically tie into a religion and feature a deity / deities. Buddhism, Zen, Taoism, and Bushido are just a few examples. Taoism points to a universal force that we interact with, but it has no personality, and is not a deity. And the focus is on our actions, not trying to define the force or getting caught up with it.
So you want to ignore the elephant in the room, Hinduism which has influenced thoughts all over the world, as both dualism and non dualism? Where do you think Karma and reincarnation comes from which is being discussed extensively in these threads? Is it just ignorance or simply your aversion to it?
A podcast, “This American President” had a professor Allen Guelzo on to discuss Lincoln. This podcast can be found on Apple’s iTunes and was posted there on April 23, 2024. I am not endorsing or opposing Guelzo's interpretation. Here is my summary based on my limitations of that interpretation, which include my boys making noises over it :
Lincoln and religion came up and the professor said that young Lincoln was rebellious against his parent’s Baptist beliefs, which were Calvinist and implied that those were more harsh/strict. Lincoln as a young man was described as an infidel or atheist by some in his town, but Lincoln never outright said he was, but was known to say things of question. He had to become more favorable to religion when he wanted to follow Henry Clay’s footsteps into politics.
Lincoln seemingly became religious as an adult, but we don’t know for sure as Lincoln kept a lot of things to himself. He saw the Civil War as great suffering and wrote an argument out to convince himself as to why and came to the conclusion that God exists and would permit the suffering of the war to go on as a punishment for slavery that the whole country was guilty of. You can see this thought process in the “Second Inaugural Address.”
Lincoln’s political philosophy is based on the “Golden Rule” of “do onto others.” You can see this throughout Lincoln’s political life, but especially in his quote “As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master.” Lincoln believed that the Golden Rule applied to Democracy and that it was the foundation of “consent.” This is why slavery was wrong to Lincoln. The "Golden Rule" being an ancient belief and the foundation of democracy made Lincoln claim that Democracy itself was an "ancient faith."
Lincoln saw Andrew Jackson as a dangerous man who avoided the Golden Rule and consent. Lincoln is accused by some of hypocrisy in this by suspending Habeas Corpus during the Civil War, but professor Guelzo disagrees. Lincoln was faced with a Civil War, the Constitution isn’t clear on emergency powers, congress was out of session for several months so he couldn’t go through congress to suspend Habeas Corpus legally. When congress came back into session Lincoln laid out all of his actions and congress voted to approve. The rights were restored when the threat of more secession receded.
"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." -Matthew 7:12
Interesting podcast, I thought that it could be of interest to others too.
QB, i just want to let you know i find your posts immensely interesting, thoughtful, and encourages thoughts and ideas. Lincoln is one my favorite Presidents. It is interesting to me to see his actions from a moral/ethical perspective as you are doing which belong right here in this forum in my opinion How religious principles plays out in real life. Although his view of Black people’s humanity is disappointing, he had the fortitude to stop the spread the evil practice of slavery. It n comparison to Thomas Jefferson who fails in all respect.
So you want to ignore the elephant in the room, Hinduism which has influenced thoughts all over the world, as both dualism and non dualism? Where do you think Karma and reincarnation comes from which is being discussed extensively in these threads? Is it just ignorance or simply your aversion to it?
no, reincarnation does not "come from" Hinduism.
it is an element that is present in many paths of religion and spirituality.
including those that are older than Hinduism.
So you want to ignore the elephant in the room, Hinduism which has influenced thoughts all over the world, as both dualism and non dualism? Where do you think Karma and reincarnation comes from which is being discussed extensively in these threads? Is it just ignorance or simply your aversion to it?
I know nothing about Hinduism, so certainly won't bring it up or try to speak about it. You can make it an 'elephant' or whatever you want, but that's on you.
I'm okay with what you call "reincarnation", as studies of temporary death experiences show a cycle of repeating life on Earth. But I only read and responded to the opening post, which had no mention of that. I'm staying on topic.
You really need to back down off that pedestal or soapbox you're thundering from, with bogus assumptions and accusations.
Last edited by Thoreau424; 05-07-2024 at 03:55 PM..
it is the same theme though. it can take many lifetimes to work on and work out the many aspects of an issue. whether that is greed. or anger. or abuse of power. it is not one and done.
not talking about Lincoln in particular, but about the process of working through the refinement of any character trait a person or soul may be addressing. so if its stealing, a person in one lifetime could say accomplish not stealing from their own family, but still steal from others. even in the mundane world, even in a single lifetime people work through those layers, they say learn not to steal from individuals but still feel fine about stealing from, say companies. i.e. "white collar crime." they won't commit "violent crime" but are fine with non-violent crime. it is very common for people to feel they can do anything "as long as they don't get caught."
so yes, it can take a many lifetimes for a person to work through the many layers of any particular aspect of growth, development, refinement.
I'm not even sure why we are debating the thought processes of Lincoln and Lindberghsince we can't know their thought processes.
I'm not even sure why we are debating the thought processes of Lincoln and Lindberghsince we can't know their thought processes.
it's not discussing their thought processes.
it is discussing the progress and development of the soul over a series of reincarnations. carrying on what was being discussed in the preceding series of posts regarding the same soul as a Himalayan yogi and subsequently also as Abraham Lincoln and also as Lindbergh, along the theme of reincarnations to specifically address growth development progress around dealing with race.
Better to focus on Lincoln' actions as president, rather than any personal preferences for religion etc. in his personal life. We don't need to keep mixing these two in the political arena, which leads to division and trouble.
If there were key philosophies in his life that he expounded on - such as working against slavery - that's fine, as philosophy tends to be broader than religion. But successes with broad philosophies shouldn't be used to promote religion.
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Best two paragraphs in the thread.
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