Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The subject matter of this thread is provocative and by its very nature creates an environment for anger. Several reports have been made from various perspectives, not only from participants in the thread, but from others who have been reading it without commenting.
We made the decision to keep it open because your moderators, especially this one, believes there is more value in both voicing and hearing what we may believe to be truths in opposition to one another and in imparting knowledge and perspectives one may not have previously considered.
As a person who was an eyewitness to some of the best and worst of humanity in our ability and choices to divide or unify ourselves because of or in spite of our differences, I am on the side of speaking out, as long as the speaking is conducted with respect, and in this case, within the TOS.
At the very least, we will know where everyone stands.
Please refrain from making personal remarks. Discuss the topic. And thanks to those posters who have maintained civil, balanced, and intelligent discourse thus far in this thread.
If everyone can continue to follow the rules, the thread can remain open.
We made the decision to keep it open because your moderators, especially this one, believes there is more value in both voicing and hearing what we may believe to be truths in opposition to one another and in imparting knowledge and perspectives one may not have previously considered.
MQ,
Thank you for your patience and careful moderation of this thread, and for the reason you have stated above. My knowledge of the Abrahamic religions is scanty and I know almost nothing about Judaism. Possibly because my eyes glazed over the OT when I read the Bible, and i quickly moved on to the NT. Christians and Muslims I have grown up with, and their practices and philosophy are familiar to me. The friends I have who are Jewish are not religious and have very little to say about it even when I prod those whom i can take such liberties with.
While the OP is harsh, the comparison of the three as he states it, is new to me. It is indeed an education to hear the counter arguments, but unfortunately they are more in the line of Christianity and Islam are no better. The OP apparently favors Christianity in comparison, but also hates all of them, as well as all form of governments.
Quickly labeling people can also lead to false conclusion and a closed mind. That would be a pity.
With all the fighting between Jews and Muslims lately, I've come to hate both even more than I already did. I also came to appreciate Christianity more than I did(except evangelicals who are literally insane). I say this as someone who would generally be considered an atheist, and who thinks Christianity is an absurdity both theologically and practically. It is fundamentally an anti-Darwinian religion which is only good at subverting non-Abrahamic authority, breeding, and producing (willing) slaves.
Judaism created the first ethno-state/nation-state and was essentially the model for the most hateful nationalists of the 19th and 20th-centuries. Judaism is a supremacist religion which sees the entire world as its enemy, jealous and antagonistic toward all. Which wishes to either make slaves of all goyim or genocide them entirely.
Islam wants to conquer the world, to enslave all mankind. It is the most ruthless religion on the entire planet which even adopts polygamy as a means to maximize birthrates and to reward conquerors and other psychopaths. It is the most closely related to Darwinian principles of the three Abrahamic religions and it amazes me that it didn't completely conquer/subjugate Christianity. It was only by Christians ceasing to be Christians(centralizing authority, embracing materialism/colonialism/usury/exploitation/war/conquest) that saved them from destruction.
Yet, I consider Christianity by far the most superior ethically and morally. It just can't exist except as a corruption of itself, and only in countries where the rulers are never genuinely guided by Christian precepts(regardless of their pretenses).
With that said, as the utilitarian Darwinian that I am, I can't help but respect Islam, and to a lesser extent Judaism. While at the same time, looking upon Christianity with disgust. Those two psychopathic religions are simply superior to Christianity because they are human. Christianity is an abomination which will inevitably and rightfully end in oblivion.
I know you other atheists don't care to argue about the specifics of the three Abrahamic religions because you consider them all equally wrong and stupid. Which is fine, but remember, atheism is and will always be an evolutionary dead-end.
To place all the evils of expansionism, colonialism, slavery and other wickedness at the feet of religion can be easy and even comforting and confirming for an atheist. But it is a fictional story to explain the horrors of wars and the extinguishing of millions of lives with the dropping of two bombs. It is not religion but sheer human cussedness. You are totally absolving human beings of their actions of sheer greed, violence, and plain thievery and making remote and nonsensical connections to religions. Bush dog whistled crusade to get his invasion of Iraq based on lies. What got him the vote and a part of country behind him was not religious fervor for crusade but the threat of terrorists. If is not Islam it is the threat of communism, it is Russia, itis China. Yes, religion can be politicised, but what the state tries to do is create fear of the other - Muslims, Communism, Socialism. Once accomplished there is so much money to be made. THAT, the love of money is the root of all evil. Religion is just a respectable cloak to cover the real reason to go to war: fear and greed. People can be made to feel righteous, protecting their "way of life, instead of feeling like thieves and murderers.
To place all the evils of expansionism, colonialism, slavery and other wickedness at the feet of religion can be easy and even comforting and confirming for an atheist.
Very few atheists say religion is responsible for ALL the evils. But religion does play a role, and to ignore that is to implicitly support the evil that religion can do.
That you need to pretend the argument is for some unexplained reason 'comforting and confirming' is just another way for you to blame others instead of addressing the actual problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008
But it is a fictional story to explain the horrors of wars and the extinguishing of millions of lives with the dropping of two bombs. It is not religion but sheer human cussedness.
That it is just human cussedness is the fiction. Your 'religion does good, it is people who do bad' mantra used to be be amusing, now it is just an eyeball exercise.
I think one thing we have to accept -- if we really think about it -- that being a member of a certain religion (whatever religion we're talking about) will result in some degree of commonality...yet it is very dangerous to stereotype. But, honestly, who can deny that a religion is a unifying force for some particular community of people.
The mistake is in assuming that the forces of unity lead to consistency. And that is the problem with many of the posts in this thread.
I think one thing we have to accept -- if we really think about it -- that being a member of a certain religion (whatever religion we're talking about) will result in some degree of commonality...yet it is very dangerous to stereotype. But, honestly, who can deny that a religion is a unifying force for some particular community of people.
The mistake is in assuming that the forces of unity lead to consistency. And that is the problem with many of the posts in this thread.
Not to mention the issue of stereotyping all the members of one religion into a "they" who all have possess consistent characteristics.
As you mentioned, I was born, really, at the height of that secret war in Laos. And so that was probably the period where the heaviest bombing happened. And I'll just remind folks that the U.S. dropped more than 2 million tons of bombs that contained more than 270 million cluster bombs inside them on Laos. And it became the most bombed country of any war. And so for nine years, every eight minutes, a bomb was dropped on Laos. And, you know, I think as a child, I just remember seeing the sky lit up almost every minute, you know, when you look up. And I think that's the experience of many Hmong Americans who are here now.
US being majority Christians, is Christianity the reason for this massive loss of innocent lives? Or is it US spermacy and disregard for human lives? What is happening in Israel, is Judaism the cause or is it the current Govt. that is waging war? Is Hamas the cause of the attack on Israelis or is it Islam?
War criminals as individuals can be charged and prosecuted. What do we do with Christianity, Islam, and Judaism? If we were to ban these 3 religions, label them terrorist religions, would wars end and would innocent lives be saved?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
