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Many accuse the Bible of approving slavery. (among other accusations of immorality) And by approving, I'm not saying it doesn't allow slavery, because it does. However, the OT shows slavery was not God's desire, it was man's desire to have it. Thus, the laws provided commands on how to regulate it.
Now as we know in American history, the Bible was used to justify the practice of slavery. However, what they don't tell you is according to the laws Moses laid out, America was in GROSS violation of slavery regulation. For one, the Bible states if anyone beats their slave to death, they are to be punished. (Which could mean capitol punishment) So question, how many American slave owners were punished for killing their slaves?
Some may say to me, yes, the Bible says if they beat their slaves to death, the owner is to be punished, but it is not so if the slave survives. To this I tell you it is stated in the OT, if a slave owner injures their slaves (a permanent injury of some kind), they are to be set free on account of their injury. If they injure the slave's eye, the slave is to be set free. If they injure the slave's hand, they are to be set free. Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. Did that happen on American soil? GROSS violation!
Finally the kicker, under OT law, an Israelite could not enslave a fellow Israelite. God only allowed those outside the nation of Israel to become slaves to Israel. At most all an Israelite could be was an indentured servant to another Israelite. And it was heavily emphasized to treat them well. If we were to carry this idea of fellow brothers and sisters under a covenant with God, Christianity is the new covenant. All of us are brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus. Thus, under this new covenant, anyone who is Christian, should not be a slave to another Christian. Seeing as how almost all slaves were Christians, thus they should have been set free on this alone according to OT laws.
All that said, how many cultures out there who practice slavery, had laws that protected the slaves this well? That a slave owner could possibly be executed for killing their slaves? Where a slave could go free due to an injury? Where a slave could go free by becoming a part of the people? And as I said, God Himself shows us He didn't desire slavery. It was man's desire to have slavery.
I'm not saying it doesn't allow slavery, because it does. However, the OT shows slavery was not God's desire, it was man's desire to have it. Thus, the laws provided commands on how to regulate it.
So slavery was wrong, but man wanted it, so god not only permitted it, but provided guidelines to practice it. Hm ...
I thought Christians taught an absolute morality, that sin is sin?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese
Seeing as how almost all slaves were Christians, thus they should have been set free on this alone according to OT laws.
Christianity was permitted to the slaves to keep them docile and submissive and distracted from any plans to escape.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese
All that said, how many cultures out there who practice slavery, had laws that protected the slaves this well?
You could be set free if you could survive a mutilating beating to with an inch of your life. That's a pretty good deal!
Many accuse the Bible of approving slavery. (among other accusations of immorality) And by approving, I'm not saying it doesn't allow slavery, because it does. However, the OT shows slavery was not God's desire, it was man's desire to have it. Thus, the laws provided commands on how to regulate it.
Now as we know in American history, the Bible was used to justify the practice of slavery. However, what they don't tell you is according to the laws Moses laid out, America was in GROSS violation of slavery regulation. For one, the Bible states if anyone beats their slave to death, they are to be punished. (Which could mean capitol punishment) So question, how many American slave owners were punished for killing their slaves?
Some may say to me, yes, the Bible says if they beat their slaves to death, the owner is to be punished, but it is not so if the slave survives. To this I tell you it is stated in the OT, if a slave owner injures their slaves (a permanent injury of some kind), they are to be set free on account of their injury. If they injure the slave's eye, the slave is to be set free. If they injure the slave's hand, they are to be set free. Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. Did that happen on American soil? GROSS violation!
Finally the kicker, under OT law, an Israelite could not enslave a fellow Israelite. God only allowed those outside the nation of Israel to become slaves to Israel. At most all an Israelite could be was an indentured servant to another Israelite. And it was heavily emphasized to treat them well. If we were to carry this idea of fellow brothers and sisters under a covenant with God, Christianity is the new covenant. All of us are brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus. Thus, under this new covenant, anyone who is Christian, should not be a slave to another Christian. Seeing as how almost all slaves were Christians, thus they should have been set free on this alone according to OT laws.
All that said, how many cultures out there who practice slavery, had laws that protected the slaves this well? That a slave owner could possibly be executed for killing their slaves? Where a slave could go free due to an injury? Where a slave could go free by becoming a part of the people? And as I said, God Himself shows us He didn't desire slavery. It was man's desire to have slavery.
Many accuse the Bible of approving slavery. (among other accusations of immorality) And by approving, I'm not saying it doesn't allow slavery, because it does.
Ergo it is flawed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese
However, the OT shows slavery was not God's desire, it was man's desire to have it. Thus, the laws provided commands on how to regulate it.
I guess it's a good thing man's desire wasn't to commit murder or adultery or incest because the Yahweh-thing would have handed down laws to regulate that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese
Now as we know in American history, the Bible was used to justify the practice of slavery.
That's because neither the Yahweh-thing nor the Jesus-thing had the moral courage to stand up and say it was wrong and to ban it permanently.
It's real simple: "No." "No, you cannot enslave others for your personal private profit and benefit."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese
However, what they don't tell you is according to the laws Moses laid out, America was in GROSS violation of slavery regulation.
It's X-Moses and he didn't write it.
How did Yahweh punish the US. Were there plagues of boils and locusts?
Oh, wait. Solomon built temples to 4 other gods and he didn't get punished and neither did any of the other kings and those 4 temples to other gods stood until King Hezekiah destroyed them and none of those kings were punished.
King Josiah destroyed a Mosaic relic at the behest of Jeremiah and Hilkiah and he didn't get punished. Well, maybe he did since he got an arrow through the eye and drug around the battlefield behind his chariot and then got his dead head cut off his dead body and paraded around Jerusalem.
Aaron didn't get punished for making the golden idols the people worshiped and for leading the people astray.
The Aaronid priests didn't get punished for slaughtering all of the Mosaic priests at Shiloh (except one who happened to be at Beth-El and survived.)
I guess Yahweh's system of justice is capriciously arbitrary. Just like a man.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese
For one, the Bible states if anyone beats their slave to death, they are to be punished. (Which could mean capitol punishment) So question, how many American slave owners were punished for killing their slaves?
Some may say to me, yes, the Bible says if they beat their slaves to death, the owner is to be punished, but it is not so if the slave survives. To this I tell you it is stated in the OT, if a slave owner injures their slaves (a permanent injury of some kind), they are to be set free on account of their injury. If they injure the slave's eye, the slave is to be set free. If they injure the slave's hand, they are to be set free. Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. Did that happen on American soil? GROSS violation!
I guess it's a good thing Yahweh sat back and watched and did nothing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese
Finally the kicker, under OT law, an Israelite could not enslave a fellow Israelite. God only allowed those outside the nation of Israel to become slaves to Israel. At most all an Israelite could be was an indentured servant to another Israelite.
An indentured servant is still a slave.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese
And it was heavily emphasized to treat them well. If we were to carry this idea of fellow brothers and sisters under a covenant with God, Christianity is the new covenant. All of us are brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus. Thus, under this new covenant, anyone who is Christian, should not be a slave to another Christian. Seeing as how almost all slaves were Christians, thus they should have been set free on this alone according to OT laws.
The Jesus-thing was too weak and pathetic to tell people it was wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese
All that said, how many cultures out there who practice slavery, had laws that protected the slaves this well?
Islam.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese
That a slave owner could possibly be executed for killing their slaves?
Islam. They actually executed people for killing slaves. The last such execution was in 1874 of an Albanian pasha and that was before the Tanzimat Reforms that banned slavery.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese
Where a slave could go free due to an injury?
Islam.
Actually, that Albanian pasha was killed for beating a slave. The slave was set free.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese
Where a slave could go free by becoming a part of the people?
Islam.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese
And as I said, God Himself shows us He didn't desire slavery. It was man's desire to have slavery.
And your god showed how weak and pathetic he was by caving into the desires of man.
"better" is not good
you have a very high bar for anything that might reflect badly on christianity
Right. Ever ask yourself why he allows sin to continue today? Ever wonder why God wouldn't wipe out all sin today? Ever stop to think that if he did, we'd both get struck by lightning?
Bottom line is that it's easy to sit back and take pot shots at something when you can't see the sin in your own life.
Right. Ever ask yourself why he allows sin to continue today? Ever wonder why God wouldn't wipe out all sin today? Ever stop to think that if he did, we'd both get struck by lightning?
Bottom line is that it's easy to sit back and take pot shots at something when you can't see the sin in your own life.
1. There is no "He".
2. And you can't. Totally oblivious.
3. You have never been able to get past the slavery issue.
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