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LOL! No, that wasn't me. I've always had a pretty healthy respect for you, along with a few others of the "atheist persuasion"
But the reason I "dittoed" your post is because I feel that if someone has questions about a certain subject, it's probably best to go to a better 'source' than to simply throw a question out to others. As you so eloquently pointed out, there's a thread (or two...) on the subject of NDE's. A quick search can bring one to that (those) thread(s).
In any case, good to 'see' you! Keep that lil' ol' heart pumpin'!
Well thanks for that "healthy respect," though I know others who wouldn't call respect for me healthy...
I've been around, so perhaps we're just not visiting the same threads. I don't wander too much in this forum as a rule, since I try to keep my involvement to a minimum while still scratching an itch to discuss matters of interest to me here and there. As for how we agree about the quick search, yes indeed anyone who really wants to learn anything about anything can generally find plenty enough information online, but I suppose there are those who want more of a personal interactive experience when learning whatever they want to learn.
Okay, I was planning on abandoning this thread, but I guess I'll give it one more try by explaining this in a different way.
I've spent my entire life going to churches of different Christian denominations. I've always been told that the only way to get to heaven is to be saved by Jesus. So if that is true, then it would seem like 100% of the NDEs of saved Christians should involve going to heaven, while 100% of everyone else's NDEs should involve going to hell. But that doesn't necessarily seem to be the case.
I've heard tons of stories about people who have had NDEs, and their religious affiliations don't necessarily seem to determine whether or not they go to heaven or hell. So that begs the question...is everything that I've ever been taught in church about salvation just a big lie? So I've looked all over the internet to see if there are any research studies that compare the percentages of people that have experienced heaven and hell. For example:
What percent of "saved" Christians experience heaven or hell in their NDEs?
What percent of Athiests experience heaven or hell in their NDEs?
Which religions have the highest and lowest percentages of people experiencing heaven or hell in their NDEs?
So I'm basically looking for some statistics and percentages that show whether or not there are any correlations between people's religious beliefs and their afterlife experiences. And are you more likely to go to heaven or hell based on your personal behaviors, or is your belief in Jesus more important than anything else? What does the NDE research data tell us about this? Or has anyone even done any NDE research about it?
Everyone believes that their religion is the right religion, and that their religion knows the true path to heaven. So rather than try to guess who is right and who is wrong, I would think that it would be easier if someone put together a thorough research study to find out which types of people have the highest percentages of experiencing heaven, and which types of people have the highest percentages of experiencing hell.
Okay, I was planning on abandoning this thread, but I guess I'll give it one more try by explaining this in a different way.
I've spent my entire life going to churches of different Christian denominations. I've always been told that the only way to get to heaven is to be saved by Jesus. So if that is true, then it would seem like 100% of the NDEs of saved Christians should involve going to heaven, while 100% of everyone else's NDEs should involve going to hell. But that doesn't necessarily seem to be the case.
I've heard tons of stories about people who have had NDEs, and their religious affiliations don't necessarily seem to determine whether or not they go to heaven or hell. So that begs the question...is everything that I've ever been taught in church about salvation just a big lie? So I've looked all over the internet to see if there are any research studies that compare the percentages of people that have experienced heaven and hell. For example:
What percent of "saved" Christians experience heaven or hell in their NDEs?
What percent of Athiests experience heaven or hell in their NDEs?
Which religions have the highest and lowest percentages of people experiencing heaven or hell in their NDEs?
So I'm basically looking for some statistics and percentages that show whether or not there are any correlations between people's religious beliefs and their afterlife experiences. And are you more likely to go to heaven or hell based on your personal behaviors, or is your belief in Jesus more important than anything else? What does the NDE research data tell us about this? Or has anyone even done any NDE research about it?
Everyone believes that their religion is the right religion, and that their religion knows the true path to heaven. So rather than try to guess who is right and who is wrong, I would think that it would be easier if someone put together a thorough research study to find out which types of people have the highest percentages of experiencing heaven, and which types of people have the highest percentages of experiencing hell.
How do you know that what a person experiences in an NDE 'shows' where they'll finally end up ?
How do you know that what a person experiences in an NDE 'shows' where they'll finally end up ?
Good point.
If someone was a non-believer and experienced “Hell” - then you’d think they’d immediately rectify that, and become a Christian.
But what if they are in a different country, or in a theocracy like Saudi Arabia etc ?
Or in an atheist autocracy like North Korea !
It would thus depend on a lot of factors, and may or may not change their ultimate fate.
I'm basically looking for some statistics and percentages that show whether or not there are any correlations between people's religious beliefs and their afterlife experiences. And are you more likely to go to heaven or hell based on your personal behaviors, or is your belief in Jesus more important than anything else? What does the NDE research data tell us about this? Or has anyone even done any NDE research about it?
As I said, it's surprisingly hard, as in practically impossible, to come up with empirically measured statistics on these things. Those studying such things mention some general features of NDEs (bright lights, tunnel, meeting dead people, etc) but all they are really doing is collecting anecdotes and as with all personal subjective experiences, we have no way of knowing how accurate (and unembellished) people's recollections of NDEs are. Attempts to study NDEs as they happen is hampered by people being in crisis at the time, a situation very un-conducive to careful study. Not every (or even most) time when someone "codes" is there an NDE, and not all of those are willing to talk about their experience.
So what you're asking for is just not something you're likely to get.
I recall reading of a tendency for people of non-Christian faiths to have NDEs that fit their cosmology / theology / idea of the afterlife. But I don't know that anyone has been able to carefully quantify that. I don't know if, say, any Hindus or Buddhists or Sikhs have met Jesus and converted to the Christian faith via an NDE. Or for that matter if any Christians have embraced Zorastrianism because of an NDE.
I have heard of people, including Christians, having negative NDEs where they go to hell or are in peril of doing so. This would make sense because some people attracted to fundamentalism have great insecurity and angst about their guilt / sin / status with god and the possibility of losing their salvation -- particularly if their sub-group's teachings support or even stoke those anxieties. But again ... these, too, are just stories.
Your desire to systematically examine the data is admirable (and i mean that with complete sincerity) but ... I don't know that there's data to be had. Lots of stories, hope, speculation ... but personal subjective experiences are not a good source of actual data.
As I said, it's surprisingly hard, as in practically impossible, to come up with empirically measured statistics on these things. Those studying such things mention some general features of NDEs (bright lights, tunnel, meeting dead people, etc) but all they are really doing is collecting anecdotes and as with all personal subjective experiences, we have no way of knowing how accurate (and unembellished) people's recollections of NDEs are. Attempts to study NDEs as they happen is hampered by people being in crisis at the time, a situation very un-conducive to careful study. Not every (or even most) time when someone "codes" is there an NDE, and not all of those are willing to talk about their experience.
So what you're asking for is just not something you're likely to get.
I recall reading of a tendency for people of non-Christian faiths to have NDEs that fit their cosmology / theology / idea of the afterlife. But I don't know that anyone has been able to carefully quantify that. I don't know if, say, any Hindus or Buddhists or Sikhs have met Jesus and converted to the Christian faith via an NDE. Or for that matter if any Christians have embraced Zorastrianism because of an NDE.
I have heard of people, including Christians, having negative NDEs where they go to hell or are in peril of doing so. This would make sense because some people attracted to fundamentalism have great insecurity and angst about their guilt / sin / status with god and the possibility of losing their salvation -- particularly if their sub-group's teachings support or even stoke those anxieties. But again ... these, too, are just stories.
Your desire to systematically examine the data is admirable (and i mean that with complete sincerity) but ... I don't know that there's data to be had. Lots of stories, hope, speculation ... but personal subjective experiences are not a good source of actual data.
Though all you explain is for the most part true and worthy of consideration, I would suggest that collecting as much data about the personal subjective experience claims might be telling as well...
Telling of what becomes the next question, but I have little doubt that whatever religion a person claims to follow is going to have an influence on how they describe those personal experiences. I don't think they need to be NDEs either. Lots of people are forever making claims about encounters with their God, and whether they make reference to Jesus or Mohammad, heaven or hell, awake or by way of dreams will largely depend on their religion or knowledge of such.
Another very significant problem is confirmation bias that tends to have us find and weigh the data in a way that suits or fits our pre-established notions about these sorts of things.
All worth the effort to research the data? To my way of thinking, there are a lot of better things to do with our time, but then again I'm here spending time in this forum, so what do I know about the best use of our time?
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