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You did answer the question, Mike. You believe that because Jesus said, "I was around before Abraham" that means all primitive cultures who practiced ritual human sacrifice could look into the future and see Jesus being crucified and they said, "We're going to do it like that guy is going to do it 100,000 years from now."
Do you know how patently absurd that is, Mile?
I did answer the question; and that's not what I'm saying at all. Maybe read my response again?
I don't want to act on God's promises. And I certainly don't want to share in his suffering. What do you think I am, some kind of stupid masochist? Why doesn't God just forgive me like any good human parent would. Lots of parents are much better to their children than God ever thought of being. Lots of parents would die for their children. God doesn't hold a patent on that kind of love. But lots of parents would die for their children even though their kids don't love them. They have God beat by a mile in the love department.
Do parents really “just forgive”? Is that good parenting?
God can’t “just forgive” because He is holy (pure, set apart). I earlier used the comparison to our courts. Can our courts just let someone off without some sort of payment? No. Our laws (society) will not allow it.
If you are guilty of sin against God (our creator), you must either accept Jesus’ payment for your guilt or pay the penalty of eternal separation from God.
Then you will be rewarded accordingly and in accord with perfect justice.
You're looking at this like a Protestant. Forgiveness is more than just a legal decree. God's forgiveness is there for the taking. He's not withholding it from you. He invites you to grab ahold of your claim to eternal life. It's rightfully yours if you want it.
That's baloney. God doesn't give mercy freely, something that would be the decent thing to do. He wants me to freely forgive my neighbor with no conditions but he attaches the condition that I have to accept Jesus if I want his forgiveness. So that's pure crap that God's forgiveness is unconditional. This is more apple polishing for an idiot God who doesn't know a thing about true mercy.
Last edited by thrillobyte; 04-21-2023 at 09:25 AM..
Do parents really “just forgive”? Is that good parenting?
God can’t “just forgive” because He is holy (pure, set apart). I earlier used the comparison to our courts. Can our courts just let someone off without some sort of payment? No. Our laws (society) will not allow it.
If you are guilty of sin against God (our creator), you must either accept Jesus’ payment for your guilt or pay the penalty of eternal separation from God.
Using the parent-child analogy is not really appropriate. Baptism, which is the means by which one becomes a child of God, is in fact also a means by which sins are forgiven (Acts 2:38). So in this way, God does indeed "just forgive" the sins of His children.
An unbaptized person has not had his sins forgiven, and cannot be rightly said to be a child of God.
Then you will be rewarded accordingly and in accord with perfect justice.
You're looking at this like a Protestant. Forgiveness is more than just a legal decree. God's forgiveness is there for the taking. He's not withholding it from you. He invites you to grab ahold of your claim to eternal life. It's rightfully yours if you want it.
While I am approaching this from a legal standpoint, your point is well taken. The legal dispute has been resolved. Forgiveness is there for the taking, as you say.
I saw nothing in your post about adultery. ??? I was commenting on you saying, “Why can’t God just say, ‘I forgive you’”? Well, for the same reason our secular courts can’t just dismiss crimes.
Without going into a long dissertation about why the courts of God and the courts of men have nothing in common, let me pose a question to you, Horn:
Say I embezzle a million dollars from my boss and the courts find me guilty and sentences me to 20 years in prison. My boss steps forward and says, "My beloved son whom I love dearly has offered to serve my former employee's sentence for him."
Will the court allow the son to serve my 20 year sentence in prison? Yes or no.
That's baloney. God doesn't give mercy freely, something would be the decent thing to do. He wants me to freely forgive my neighbor with no conditions but he attaches the condition that I have to accept Jesus if I want his forgiveness. So that's pure crap that God's forgiveness is unconditional. This is more apple polishing for an idiot God who doesn't know a thing about true mercy.
I don't know what it means to 'accept Jesus'. That's not Catholic terminology. If you want your sins forgiven, you need to confess them and be baptized (you've already done the latter).
In a sense, God's forgiveness certainly is conditional. I don't dispute that. But in a sense, it's also unconditional. It just depends on in what sense you are meaning.
Using the parent-child analogy is not really appropriate. Baptism, which is the means by which one becomes a child of God, is in fact also a means by which sins are forgiven (Acts 2:38). So in this way, God does indeed "just forgive" the sins of His children.
An unbaptized person has not had his sins forgiven, and cannot be rightly said to be a child of God.
No, God cannot “just forgive”. Jesus paid the penalty for us. That’s why salvation is available to anyone who is willing.
That's baloney. God doesn't give mercy freely, something would be the decent thing to do. He wants me to freely forgive my neighbor with no conditions but he attaches the condition that I have to accept Jesus if I want his forgiveness. So that's pure crap that God's forgiveness is unconditional. This is more apple polishing for an idiot God who doesn't know a thing about true mercy.
“Accept Jesus” just means to accept the payment He made on your behalf.
Without going into a long dissertation about why the courts of God and the courts of men have nothing in common, let me pose a question to you, Horn:
Say I embezzle a million dollars from my boss and the courts find me guilty and sentence me to 20 years in prison. My boss steps forward and says, "My beloved son whom I love dearly has offered to serve my former employee's sentence for him."
Will the court allow the son to serve my 20 year sentence in prison? Yes or no.
No, but God will.
In both cases, payment for guilt is rightly required.
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