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Jesus died on the cross as a plan of God to separated people who would put Jesus on the cross and people who will reject sin like putting Jesus on the cross and all other selfish sins and turn to support Jesus ...... where denier of Jesus always like to bring up false claims against God to justify their unbelief
So why don't the really devout follow in his footsteps? (some actually do in the Philippines...a very catholic culture that is far more rowdy than Thailand's...so presumably disgusting in your eyes).
If God ask us to forgive our neighbor without any contrition, sacrifice, or action on their part then why should we expect any less from him? I mean who's the more omniscient and more omnipotent in our relationship with him--us or him? It appears that God demands us to act in a more civil manner than he is capable of acting. Doesn't that make sense to you?
God has already forgiven the collective *us*. That was demonstrated by Christ. His forgiveness is there. He's not holding it back from us.
The problem is that if we don't do anything, we don't achieve anything. We have to act on God's promises and claim a share in Christ's reward. Many (most?) people aren't willing to do this, because it also requires sharing in His sufferings.
We were created to be more than we presently are. That's the issue. Without the work of Christ - and without us actively sharing and participating in His sufferings - it is simply not ontologically possible for us to reclaim what was lost in the Garden.
We were made for supernatural union with God, not natural bliss.
If God had simply forgiven mankind by divine decree and without Christ coming to die, we could never have achieved anything more than natural bliss.
John 8:58 - “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.â€
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte
My contention (and the contention of a few hundred secular scholars as well) is that the concept of God requiring a blood sacrifice to appease his anger and grant mortals a favor is nothing original. It was very popular at the time of Jesus and thousands of centuries before him so it wouldn't be irrational to the normal mind to ask, "Who stole from who?" the operative word being "normal" of course.
Did the gospel writers steal the idea of Jesus being a blood sacrifice to an angry God from customs and practices that originated thousands of years before Jesus, or did primitive cultures that existed thousands of years before Jesus steal the idea of blood sacrifices to appease their angry gods from Jesus?
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Originally Posted by DRob4JC
No.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte
Clarify in you dare, Rob.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC
Why?
Thank you, Rob for demonstrating why it's pointless to try to have an intelligent conversation with a Christian.
Any Christians in here who are NOT terrified to answer the question like Rob:
Did the gospel writers steal the idea of Jesus being a blood sacrifice to an angry God from customs and practices that originated thousands of years before Jesus, or did primitive cultures that existed thousands of years before Jesus steal the idea of blood sacrifices to appease their angry gods from Jesus?
Any Christians in here who are NOT terrified to answer the question like Rob:
Did the gospel writers steal the idea of Jesus being a blood sacrifice to an angry God from customs and practices that originated thousands of years before Jesus, or did primitive cultures that existed thousands of years before Jesus steal the idea of blood sacrifices to appease their angry gods from Jesus?
The similarities are only evidence of the deep-seated gnosis within humanity and the longing humanity has for God.
God has already forgiven the collective *us*. That was demonstrated by Christ. His forgiveness is there. He's not holding it back from us.
The problem is that if we don't do anything, we don't achieve anything. We have to act on God's promises and claim a share in Christ's reward. Many (most?) people aren't willing to do this, because it also requires sharing in His sufferings.
I don't want to act on God's promises. And I certainly don't want to share in his suffering. What do you think I am, some kind of stupid masochist? Why doesn't God just forgive me like any good human parent would. Lots of parents are much better to their children than God ever thought of being. Lots of parents would die for their children. God doesn't hold a patent on that kind of love. But lots of parents would die for their children even though their kids don't love them. They have God beat by a mile in the love department.
The similarities are only evidence of the deep-seated gnosis within humanity and the longing humanity has for God.
You did answer the question, Mike. You believe that because Jesus said, "I was around before Abraham" that means all primitive cultures who practiced ritual human sacrifice could look into the future and see Jesus being crucified and they said, "We're going to do it like that guy is going to do it 100,000 years from now."
I don't want to act on God's promises. And I certainly don't want to share in his suffering. What do you think I am, some kind of stupid masochist?
Then you will be rewarded accordingly and in accord with perfect justice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte
Why doesn't God just forgive me like any good human parent would. Lots of parents are much better to their children than God ever thought of being. Lots of parents would die for their children. God doesn't hold a patent on that kind of love. But lots of parents would die for their children even though their kids don't love them. They have God beat by a mile in the love department.
You're looking at this like a Protestant. Forgiveness is more than just a legal decree. God's forgiveness is there for the taking. He's not withholding it from you. He invites you to grab ahold of your claim to eternal life. It's rightfully yours if you want it.
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