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Yes, that's correct. And she is not only wrong for preaching, as a woman, but she is demonstrably a heretic. She's taught some things that both men and women in the 1st Century church would have soundly condemned her as a heretic.
Which attitude, specifically? The one that says truth is relative, determined by the sex of the writer? Or mine, which believes truth is truth?
Your dishonesty and your tiresome schtick of twisting other posters' meaning to make it sound as if they said something else--which we have been calling you out on for YEARS now is not nice.
Tell me, do you employ this low behavior in your own church? At home with your family? At work? Or just here? It's wrong, and falls under "bearing false witness".
It is not, as you are well aware, merely about "the sex of the writer." It is about the entrenched views of a patriarchal culture that considered women property and creatures to be ruled over to the point where this culture made oppression the law.. The Bible itself tells you this is wrong in the Genesis story when God says, "your husband shall rule over you", once sin entered the world. They knew it was wrong and yet turned the warning into a way of life, using the words as justification for evil rather than conscience.
It really is culture today. People think that if we JUST change the church to be more like the world, that the world will suddenly come rushing in.
Meanwhile, Jesus said "“If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you." John 15:18-19
Now, I'm not suggesting we should intentionally be obnoxious, but let's get serious. Truth is truth, and the world realizes when people are pandering to them.
What people are you talking about? Who says they think this way? I have never heard anyone say such a thing.
You see this with a completely different point of view from the way I do. Not pandering, but rather striving to correct what is wrong. It is wrong for one group of people to rule over and oppress another. There is no argument that can be made for such human behavior that does not go against "Love one another".
Telling a spirit-filled woman that she cannot preach or lead because you believe your body parts make you superior is not only sinful and oppressive, it's stupid, and is not willful stupidity employed to oppress and control others also sinful? God gave us the intelligence to know better. It is wrong to bury the talent of intelligence that was given to us.
Your dishonesty and your tiresome schtick of twisting other posters' meaning to make it sound as if they said something else--which we have been calling you out on for YEARS now is not nice.
Tell me, do you employ this low behavior in your own church? At home with your family? At work? Or just here? It's wrong, and falls under "bearing false witness".
You were the one that alluded to the idea that we can't believe Scripture because men wrote it. You call me dishonest, then you deny it when I call you out on it. Your continued dishonesty while accusing me of the same is sad. You act as if you have some moral high ground here, but at least I'm honest.
Quote:
It is not, as you are well aware, merely about "the sex of the writer." It is about the entrenched views of a patriarchal culture that considered women property and creatures to be ruled over to the point where this culture made oppression the law.. The Bible itself tells you this is wrong in the Genesis story when God says, "your husband shall rule over you", once sin entered the world. They knew it was wrong and yet turned the warning into a way of life, using the words as justification for evil rather than conscience.
THAT is the truth.
In other words, you don't believe it should be discounted because of the men that wrote it, living in the culture they did?
What people are you talking about? Who says they think this way? I have never heard anyone say such a thing.
Have you read the LGBT and Christianity thread?
Have you seen the calls for the church to be gay-affirming? Or when you, yourself imply it's misogynistic?
Quote:
You see this with a completely different point of view from the way I do. Not pandering, but rather striving to correct what is wrong. It is wrong for one group of people to rule over and oppress another. There is no argument that can be made for such human behavior that does not go against "Love one another".
What if your point of view was inconsistent with the very words of Jesus? Would you be willing to change your point of view? Or is John wrong because he was a man who misquoted Jesus?
Quote:
Telling a spirit-filled woman that she cannot preach or lead because you believe your body parts make you superior is not only sinful and oppressive, it's stupid, and is not willful stupidity employed to oppress and control others also sinful? God gave us the intelligence to know better. It is wrong to bury the talent of intelligence that was given to us.
And again, who is dishonest here? You are using a strawman argument to attack me. This is pathetic and you should be ashamed.
Which attitude, specifically? The one that says truth is relative, determined by the sex of the writer? Or mine, which believes truth is truth?
Truth is in fact relative, determined by the perceiver. If you believe, for example, that women are just bodies to produce children with, that may be your truth, conditioned by your knowledge, experience and mindset. It is not THE TRUTH. There is no such thing.
It really is culture today. People think that if we JUST change the church to be more like the world, that the world will suddenly come rushing in.
Meanwhile, Jesus said "“If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you." John 15:18-19
Now, I'm not suggesting we should intentionally be obnoxious, but let's get serious. Truth is truth, and the world realizes when people are pandering to them.
Wow. all this hate going one. Where is all the love and forgiveness that Jesus preached? Is it possible this is John's truth?
You were the one that alluded to the idea that we can't believe Scripture because men wrote it. You call me dishonest, then you deny it when I call you out on it. Your continued dishonesty while accusing me of the same is sad. You act as if you have some moral high ground here, but at least I'm honest.
In other words, you don't believe it should be discounted because of the men that wrote it, living in the culture they did?
And you do it again. Simply astounding.
That is not what I said. I said, and I will repeat so that there is no question of what I am saying, that the claim that women should not hold positions of leadership in the church is false by virtue of the fact that those very words were written by men in a patriarchal society. OF COURSE THEY WERE GOING TO SAY THAT. DUH.
Genesis was not written by men as tribal law. It is the written version of an oral tradition.
Truth is in fact relative, determined by the perceiver. If you believe, for example, that women are just bodies to produce children with, that may be your truth, conditioned by your knowledge, experience and mindset. It is not THE TRUTH. There is no such thing.
No one has suggested that. It's a non-sequitur.
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