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Interesting title...huh! I might have posted this before, but couldn't find it.
Famous labor rights leader over a century ago, Eugene Debs, was a devoted Christian, but skeptical of organized religion, because he thought it was used to control the working poor.
In December 1914 he read in the newspaper that a Michigan prisoner had saved up money to buy orphan children Christmas toys and gotten a letter reprinted in the newspaper where he explained his decision.
Eugene Debs then wrote him an open letter back in the newspaper:
Quote:
My Dear Brother:
I do not know who you are but I have read your Christmas letter and I send you my greeting with my heart in it. You may be a convict, but you are my brother and when your message came to me I was touched to tears.
There is more to the real religion of Jesus Christ in the spirit you breathe out to the world from behind your cruel prison bars than in all of the orthodox sermons ever preached. You love the little children even as He loved them and you are in prison, while He was crucified. It is well that you are patient and forgiving. The world moves slowly. It may still be said: “They know not what they do.”
You had the misfortune to be born in a world not yet civilized. Jesus loved the erring into righteousness. His professed followers shut them out from God’s sunlight and torture them into degeneracy and crime. The erring did not make themselves. God made them. Let Him judge them.
The society that sent you to prison devours its own offspring. Thousands of little children are starved, stunted, and ground into dividends in the mills of mammon. It is the Christian society’s homeless, neglected babes to whom you, one of its condemned convicts, feel moved to send the pennies coined from your own blood and agony. What a sermon and what a rebuke!
If you ought to be in a penitentiary I know of not one who ought to be out.
Believe me with heart and hand, your brother and fellow-man,
Eugene V. Debs
#1 We all can...do something to make someone else better this holiday season. We call can...seek to make this a better world for all. Enact change at the one on one level. Enact change on the grand scheme. We all have a duty to make it better for all.
#2 We all have value. We all have humanity. From the richest CEO to the person locked up in jail. We are all humans with a divine spark...worthy of love and respect. All deserving of a fair chance and all deserving of being healed.
"That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another." -Jesus in John 13:34
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." Jesus in Matthew 5:16
"Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another." -Heb 6:10
My father is a big Eugne Debs fan...too much so. I am a big Jesus fan!
Debs was the Bernie Sanders of his era, more or less, politically speaking. He was imprisoned for having the temerity to speak out against the draft. I try not to put anyone on too much of a pedestal, but you have to respect that kind of integrity.
And I think here he is channeling the kind of love and compassion that many Christians only pay lip service to. I also think it's nearly as true today as 100 years ago: we have the misfortune to be born into a world that's not yet civilized.
I don't mean to be a party-pooper, and I do appreciate the spirit that QuakerBaker displays, but there was not a word about whatever the crime was that resulted in the imprisonment of the unnamed prisoner. Just because he had a soft spot for orphaned children doesn't mean that he didn't deserve to be in prison depending on the nature of his crime. Most people, I won't say all people, have some good in them, but if a person commits a crime that harms someone, whatever good he does afterwards doesn't negate the fact that he intentionally victimized someone and needs to suffer the consequences for his crime. I don't think that equating his imprisonment with Jesus' crucifixion and pretty much painting him, the prisoner, as the victim of society was warranted.
Jesus came in an uncivilized world just the age before His birth and after His birth .. Where Jesus gave his all for the prince of peace could give which is full spiritual authority in the earth which was absent before Jesus ....... But the peace that Jesus brought is only for those who follow Him even though there is power to bring peace the whole world over and over where the devil is too overwhelming for the Christian and the non-believer in Jesus to receive the power for peace over the whole world ......... Jesus will overcome the world and bring everyone into His authority as children of God, which will come after His second coming ...... Still, the Christmas of Jesus birth is the final coming of the Messiah which the Jewish people will not accept ...... Some have said the Cows will come home went the Messiah comes ..... So here is Jesus born in the earth laying in a cow's manger
I don't mean to be a party-pooper, and I do appreciate the spirit that QuakerBaker displays, but there was not a word about whatever the crime was that resulted in the imprisonment of the unnamed prisoner. Just because he had a soft spot for orphaned children doesn't mean that he didn't deserve to be in prison depending on the nature of his crime. Most people, I won't say all people, have some good in them, but if a person commits a crime that harms someone, whatever good he does afterwards doesn't negate the fact that he intentionally victimized someone and needs to suffer the consequences for his crime. I don't think that equating his imprisonment with Jesus' crucifixion and pretty much painting him, the prisoner, as the victim of society was warranted.
But maybe that's just me.
Prisons are disproportionately full of the poor, minorities and the disadvantaged. I think that is what Debs was on about. Not that they are all innocent, but when you are born to poverty and have terrible prospects, the odds of turning to crime, or even just having your existence criminalized, goes way up. And we've all seen the studies that conclusively show that people caught in some relatively minor crime such as possessing an ounce of weed, are far more likely to do time (or more of it) if they aren't white. Just tonight my wife and I were viewing the formerly suppressed body-cam footage that has been published of various POCs being brutalized by police for sport, for crimes like minor traffic violations. Some of these people were killed. Some of the police involved have been charged with crimes like torture, so egregious was their actions.
None of this is to excuse criminality or suggest that there should be no consequences for actual crimes; it is simply pointing out that a lot of people are in prison who shouldn't be and/or serving more time than they should, and the prison system mostly fails at rehabilitation and in fact makes matters worse by brutalizing people and making recidivism more likely. In recent years the huge increase in private prison companies has only made matters worse.
Was Debs assuming too much, that this person was unjustly deprived of his freedom simply because he donated to poor children? IDK. Maybe. There's not enough data to say. But I'd suggest he was more likely right than wrong, because the system then and now is obsessed with punishment and degradation of prisoners rather than actually optimizing for teaching them self control, job skills, giving them meaningful opportunities for restitution, and other things that would be a lot more productive.
Prisons are disproportionately full of the poor, minorities and the disadvantaged. I think that is what Debs was on about. Not that they are all innocent, but when you are born to poverty and have terrible prospects, the odds of turning to crime, or even just having your existence criminalized, goes way up. And we've all seen the studies that conclusively show that people caught in some relatively minor crime such as possessing an ounce of weed, are far more likely to do time (or more of it) if they aren't white. Just tonight my wife and I were viewing the formerly suppressed body-cam footage that has been published of various POCs being brutalized by police for sport, for crimes like minor traffic violations. Some of these people were killed. Some of the police involved have been charged with crimes like torture, so egregious was their actions.
None of this is to excuse criminality or suggest that there should be no consequences for actual crimes; it is simply pointing out that a lot of people are in prison who shouldn't be and/or serving more time than they should, and the prison system mostly fails at rehabilitation and in fact makes matters worse by brutalizing people and making recidivism more likely. In recent years the huge increase in private prison companies has only made matters worse.
Sadly, this is all true.
Quote:
Was Debs assuming too much, that this person was unjustly deprived of his freedom simply because he donated to poor children? IDK. Maybe. There's not enough data to say. But I'd suggest he was more likely right than wrong, because the system then and now is obsessed with punishment and degradation of prisoners rather than actually optimizing for teaching them self control, job skills, giving them meaningful opportunities for restitution, and other things that would be a lot more productive.
My take is that the prisoner was saving up money he had earned while in prison doing some kind of paid prisoner work program, or perhaps he regularly received money from family or friends. It doesn't make any sense that someone would be imprisoned for donating money to poor children.
Interesting title...huh! I might have posted this before, but couldn't find it.
Famous labor rights leader over a century ago, Eugene Debs, was a devoted Christian, but skeptical of organized religion, because he thought it was used to control the working poor.
In December 1914 he read in the newspaper that a Michigan prisoner had saved up money to buy orphan children Christmas toys and gotten a letter reprinted in the newspaper where he explained his decision.
Eugene Debs then wrote him an open letter back in the newspaper:
#1 We all can...do something to make someone else better this holiday season. We call can...seek to make this a better world for all. Enact change at the one on one level. Enact change on the grand scheme. We all have a duty to make it better for all.
#2 We all have value. We all have humanity. From the richest CEO to the person locked up in jail. We are all humans with a divine spark...worthy of love and respect. All deserving of a fair chance and all deserving of being healed.
"That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another." -Jesus in John 13:34
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." Jesus in Matthew 5:16
"Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another." -Heb 6:10
My father is a big Eugne Debs fan...too much so. I am a big Jesus fan!
Good post.
Helping others (within your means) who are in dire needs, may be started in this holiday season but it should not be stopped after the Holidays - it should be continued thru out the year and thru out your life.
Imagine if we all become minimalistic?
There will be no more poverty anywhere in the world - there will be no inflation, no homeless, no food shortage, no children sleeping hungry, affordable healthcare cost.
Most of human suffering is because of our lust and greed to accumulate.
My take is that the prisoner was saving up money he had earned while in prison doing some kind of paid prisoner work program, or perhaps he regularly received money from family or friends. It doesn't make any sense that someone would be imprisoned for donating money to poor children.
I did not mean he was imprisoned for donating to the poor, but wondering rhetorically if it was being assumed he must have been innocent because of the character now on display in so doing. Poor sentence structure, sorry.
I did not mean he was imprisoned for donating to the poor, but wondering rhetorically if it was being assumed he must have been innocent because of the character now on display in so doing. Poor sentence structure, sorry.
I see.
I probably shouldn't have even made my initial post as it wasn't in keeping with the spirit of QuakerBaker's intentions for the thread. My bad. So, I'm sorry, QuakerBaker. Here's me shutting up.
Good post.
Helping others (within your means) who are in dire needs, may be started in this holiday season but it should not be stopped after the Holidays - it should be continued thru out the year and thru out your life.
Imagine if we all become minimalistic?
There will be no more poverty anywhere in the world - there will be no inflation, no homeless, no food shortage, no children sleeping hungry, affordable healthcare cost.
Most of human suffering is because of our lust and greed to accumulate.
I wish I could give u a dozen reps
IF the Advent season , in any way,inspires someone to not be selfish, to not think of helping one's fellow man, then I think it is worth it.
Minimalism is still a goal here...but at least it is no longer a dream. While we are not hoarders, I had and still have relatives who were/are. I vowed not to be like them. BUT Over the years, I have collected junk that I no longer want and no longer wish to house. Sorting through what I need/want vs what I have is my goal for 2023.
Here is a novel idea: Buy used when you can. While some items are best purchased new, consider the carbon footprint and cost of manufacturing a new item as opposed to a similar used item.
Anyway, the Bold above is one of the many things I have learned from visiting the Buddhist temple here on occasion. There is a podcast called "The MINIMALISTS" on youtube and they have some great ideas. I told everyone that gift wise, "if I cannot eat, drink, or wear it, then I don't want or need it"
Now I did donate toys for tots, and enjoyed buying toys for kids because my kids are adults now (at least age wise) and I miss buying toys for kids. And children need toys....that is a known fact among developmental psychologists.
THere is another issue though, that materialism does not lead to happiness. From my experience, it leads to a temporary satisfaction, sometimes, but in the end, just to stress. The Ex-Cat wife was from a family of hoarders, and she would collect junk at any and every turn, thinking it would lead to happiness. Her thinking seemed to be that "just one more thing" just one more shopping spree, just one more item, just one more of anything, would lead to some level of happiness, but that satisfaction was ALWAYS another object away. I learned that not only does materialism not lead to happiness, but that suffering DOES on fact come from greed and cravings and suffering results from not having satisfaction with what one has. We now that loving oneself and loving others is a key to happiness and in the context of both teachings, there is not room for selfishness. SO if Advent sparks a change in someone, like Scrooge, who after his conversion became, according to the story, He became as good a
friend, as good a master, and as good a man as the good old city knew; and it
was always said of Ebenezer Scrooge, that he knew how to keep Christmas
well, if any man alive possessed the knowledge. Dickens A Christmas Carol
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