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Old 12-20-2022, 11:11 AM
 
477 posts, read 124,571 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
What is amazing is that everyone will be happy to say "I don't know"...but they WON'T consider a divine cause.

This is because, given what we do know, there is absolutely no reason to consider a divine cause.
In fact, given what we do know, it would be highly irrational to consider a divine cause.
That's for sure!
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Old 12-20-2022, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,777 posts, read 24,289,888 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonof View Post
This is because, given what we do know, there is absolutely no reason to consider a divine cause.
In fact, given what we do know, it would be highly irrational to consider a divine cause.
That's for sure!
I sort of agree...with the bolded. But that doesn't mean that people shouldn't give some consideration to a divine cause.
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Old 12-20-2022, 05:09 PM
 
477 posts, read 124,571 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I sort of agree...with the bolded. But that doesn't mean that people shouldn't give some consideration to a divine cause.

Since there is no need for this kind of consideration, I don't really understand where "should" would come from.
Naturalistic hypothesis, all components of which are known real physical phenomena, is sufficiently complete and backed up by experiments and calculations.
God hypothesis has nothing of a sort going for it thus making it completely useless.
Anyone who would want, for whatever the reason, to entertain it, can do it, of course.
But "should"? I just don't see it.
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Old 12-20-2022, 10:25 PM
 
63,791 posts, read 40,063,093 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonof View Post
Since there is no need for this kind of consideration, I don't really understand where "should" would come from.
Naturalistic hypothesis, all components of which are known real physical phenomena, is sufficiently complete and backed up by experiments and calculations.
God hypothesis has nothing of a sort going for it thus making it completely useless.
Anyone who would want, for whatever the reason, to entertain it, can do it, of course.
But "should"? I just don't see it.
You clearly only know just enough to make you dangerous and not enough to realize the utter insufficiency of our knowledge gained at the macro level when the bulk of our Reality exists as quanta!!
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Old 12-21-2022, 08:40 AM
 
477 posts, read 124,571 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
You clearly only know just enough to make you dangerous and not enough to realize the utter insufficiency of our knowledge gained at the macro level when the bulk of our Reality exists as quanta!!

How do you know about how much I know when you did even ask about naturalistic hypothesis, all components of which are known real physical phenomena and which is sufficiently complete and backed up by experiments and calculations?
Should not you be interested in hearing what makes god "explanation" completely useless and why?
Or you'd rather just stick to your usual zero information value word salads?
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Old 12-21-2022, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
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I think about the implication of this thread...we can't explain it (yet), so it must be god. Not much different thinking than those goat herders.
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Old 12-21-2022, 08:53 AM
 
477 posts, read 124,571 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I think about the implication of this thread...we can't explain it (yet), so it must be god. Not much different thinking than those goat herders.
It is even worse than that.
At least, those goat herders really could not explain it.
We pretty much can.

So, invoking some magical imaginary "friend" while real, reasonable, rational explanation is right in front of you is really inexcusable.
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Old 12-21-2022, 11:36 AM
 
63,791 posts, read 40,063,093 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonof View Post
How do you know about how much I know when you did even ask about naturalistic hypothesis, all components of which are known real physical phenomena and which is sufficiently complete and backed up by experiments and calculations?
Should not you be interested in hearing what makes god "explanation" completely useless and why?
Or you'd rather just stick to your usual zero information value word salads?
I LIVED the naturalistic hypothesis for over 30 years as a science practitioner! What you do NOT tend to know is that all the different manifestations we react to are artifacts of our brain interpreting the energy realm at the macro level to enable us to function within it. The energy realm is the energy realm, period, and we exist at a lower level of physical substance. The bulk of it exists at higher and inaccessible energy levels. Using the less than 5% of it that we can discover to make all-encompassing assertions about the 95+% realm inaccessible to us is just foolishness! But it is typical of those whose knowledge has not gone beyond what is generally available to the masses.
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Old 12-21-2022, 01:07 PM
 
477 posts, read 124,571 times
Reputation: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I LIVED the naturalistic hypothesis for over 30 years as a science practitioner! What you do NOT tend to know is that all the different manifestations we react to are artifacts of our brain interpreting the energy realm at the macro level to enable us to function within it. The energy realm is the energy realm, period, and we exist at a lower level of physical substance. The bulk of it exists at higher and inaccessible energy levels. Using the less than 5% of it that we can discover to make all-encompassing assertions about the 95+% realm inaccessible to us is just foolishness! But it is typical of those whose knowledge has not gone beyond what is generally available to the masses.

Whatever all this means, if anything, it still has nothing to do with the subject of this discussion, which is, at least from the point I got involved, the origin of the Universe.
Naturalistic cause vs divine cause.

Naturalistic cause hypothesis is perfectly real (meaning all its components and processes are confirmed to be part of reality) and backed up with solid science.
Divine cause hypothesis is completely made up joke.
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Old 12-21-2022, 01:44 PM
 
63,791 posts, read 40,063,093 times
Reputation: 7869
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonof View Post
Whatever all this means, if anything, it still has nothing to do with the subject of this discussion, which is, at least from the point I got involved, the origin of the Universe.
Naturalistic cause vs divine cause.

Naturalistic cause hypothesis is perfectly real (meaning all its components and processes are confirmed to be part of reality) and backed up with solid science.
Divine cause hypothesis is completely made-up joke.
The entire issue of "cause" is abrogated by the fact that WHATEVER this Reality IS, it, ITSELF is our God (i.e., our Creator) though that FACT seems to be anathema in this forum!!!
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