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You may be right, and I'll tell you why I say that. He became very 'mechanical' in saying the mass. We used to time him. He could say a regular mass in approximately 24 minutes. And when he said, "The Mass has ended, thanks be to god", we used to laugh and say he was thanking god that the mass was over!
I do have to admit, however, that he had replaced a much beloved priest, although he went about it all wrong, and he never got a fair shake from the community. I actually felt a bit sorry for him.
The priest who replaced our last beloved priest is in that spot now. The beloved priest's sermons were based pretty much solely on the idea that living as a Christian meant following Christ's directive to love God and your neighbor, and that the first was accomplished by following the second. He usually used current news and situations as starting points.
When he was there, I would actually think about what would be the right choices to make for humanity's sake in a given situation. That was what religion meant to me for the five years I was involved in that parish listening to him teach that way of thinking. A way of becoming a better person.
The new priest is more traditional and uses the style of sermon that starts with "Too often, we think/do/say <insert something to which I cannot relate at all and therefore am not part of your 'we'>". He is sufficient but boring, and a pleasant enough person, but he is coming behind someone who had more of an impact.
I am 500 miles that parish, so I have not attended the church since Easter 2021, but I don't miss it. I miss some of the people though.
Is religion different from the way I think of politics, economics, or sociology?
May be to some extent there is a small common ground because religious belief could drive politics, economics and sociology of a society but Religion also deals with matters not only in this life (both social and personal), but also it tries to answer (based on faith) as to what’s after death? Politics, economics and sociology throw a white towel in the ring when it comes to this realm of consciousness..
Thank you for sharing that, I enjoyed reading it.
Ref. to Bolded: Do you think Consciousness and the awareness of what it is, an essential aspect of Religion in general, not just in terms of Islam? It is clear this is a class by itself apart from politics and economics and defense and nation etc. This awareness is internal in a way politics and other secular concerns are not. As you have stated it is part of everyday life, it is the way we act.
I would not say that myself.
As we know a 'devil or angel' or a non-religious person may believe in those things.
I will speak from having been a Catholic, (following God's wishes as expressed by Jesus or the Old Testament and being baptized are givens ).
But to be part of any Religion :1. Following their ideas, rules, concepts, rituals and Precepts, period.
Examples of Precepts for Catholics and other (just) concepts dreamed up, that can change:
-having to go to confession at least once a yr,
- not eating for an hour before receiving Communion,
-going to Mass, one time a yr at Easter, at least, to be considered Catholic and receiving Communion then.
-following, supporting the Pope's 'rules'.
-supporting the church monetarily
-and many other ideas made up by those 'in charge' ---as in any Protestant religion, church or club.
I am trying to see if there is an essential quality to Religion in general, a quality that if it does not exist it cannot be religion?
So then we are back to trying to define what Religion is. What is it?
Not how it is practiced, but is there really a thing called Religion?
IMO, when you believe that you could face the consequences of your bad actions REGARDLESS of being the practitioner and believer of your faith - then you inherently try to do what’s good and avoid what’s bad when it comes to your day to day interaction with people.
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I believe that is an essential quality of Religion as well - this awareness about facing the consequences.
I'm glad I'm past religion and don't need it. It only gets in the way of spiritual thought and activity.
This might be a crappy analogy, but spirituality would be like a living tree, and religion would be a picture of it. The imitation formed by man (picture) can never even closely approximate the real/living. But man will continue to waste time trying, and put priority on what he's created with his hands or technology. Man nearly always chooses himself and his ways over nature. And that shows up in many other areas in daily life if we look around, beyond churches / religion.
But isn't the picture a representation of the tree, and exists because the tree exists? It seems to me spirituality is there as a goal somewhere between the two.
But isn't the picture a representation of the tree, and exists because the tree exists? It seems to me spirituality is there as a goal somewhere between the two.
The issue is, which is going to be given priority and focus. Unfortunately for too many in the religious world, it's on the image / representation / model / concept (which is human-controlled and flawed), rather than the spiritual side directly (which is perfect and divinely-controlled).
It admittedly takes more work to do the internal searching and seeking, but people cop out and compromise by going the human route, depending on other people to tell them or teach them or say how matters are. It's depending on the human instead of the divine. And the human approach corporately will always model the human way, with all our flaws and failures included in it.
Last edited by Thoreau424; 10-26-2022 at 06:07 PM..
The issue is, which is going to be given priority and focus. Unfortunately for too many in the religious world, it's on the image / representation / model / concept (which is human-controlled and flawed), rather than the spiritual side directly (which is perfect and divinely-controlled).
It admittedly takes more work to do the internal searching and seeking, but people cop out and compromise by going the human route, depending on other people to tell them or teach them or say how matters are. It's depending on the human instead of the divine. And the human approach corporately will always model the human way, with all our flaws and failures included in it.
Spirituality does not need religion. Religion is a construct, however, to realize spirituality. It is like the road you are driving on, with white lines drawn to mark off the width, a dividing line down the middle, with a name, Buttermilk Road or such. But really it only exists for the motorist, it is still part of the rural land, a field, on which the road is constructed and paved. If a cow were to appear she wouldn’t know the road from the field of grass she is munching on. It only makes sense to the motorist, and only until he arrives at his destination.
I'm glad I'm past religion and don't need it. It only gets in the way of spiritual thought and activity.
This might be a crappy analogy, but spirituality would be like a living tree, and religion would be a picture of it. The imitation formed by man (picture) can never even closely approximate the real/living. But man will continue to waste time trying, and put priority on what he's created with his hands or technology. Man nearly always chooses himself and his ways over nature. And that shows up in many other areas in daily life if we look around, beyond churches / religion.
Not sure what this even means?
Are you under the perception that religious beliefs stop a person from growing? In what sense?
Religion basically provides a moral code on how to live a morally cautious and a peaceful life. Religious guidance encourages one to be an honest person, be truthful, be just, be generous, be nice, be kind, be merciful, be humble, be forgiving, and be patient person who is kind to others, nature and animals. Religious spirituality also, strongly advised and warns you to avoid cheating, deceiving and hurting and doing injustice to others etc.
If spirituality derived from religion does not instill the above qualities into a practitioner then what’s the use of such spirituality?
Or, are you saying the above outline of religious morality and guideline is fixed like a picture of tree, and it should be changed to look like an actual tree that grows? What changes, in the name of “growth” would you like to see in religious morality and religiously spirituality?
Matter of fact, before you answer the above, I would like to know EXACTLY and PRECISELY, what does being “spiritual and not religious” even mean? What exactly does a “spiritualist but a non-religious” person believe?
Does the spirituality you practice provide a guideline on how to live your life? If not, exactly what benefit does this “non-religious spirituality” yields to you and towards the society you live in? Please provide an example or two.
Also, please provide an example of “growth” in a non-religious spiritualist” versus no growth (like a tree picture) in a religious spiritualist?
Ref. to Bolded: Do you think Consciousness and the awareness of what it is, an essential aspect of Religion in general, not just in terms of Islam? It is clear this is a class by itself apart from politics and economics and defense and nation etc. This awareness is internal in a way politics and other secular concerns are not. As you have stated it is part of everyday life, it is the way we act.
The awareness in the “existence of an unseen God or a force or something that we can’t fully comprehend, is being out there”; I think comes naturally internal to many, but perhaps it’s not internal to all and everyone .
I don’t know the answer to that. But if I have to take a guess then I think it might come natural to the majority of believers.
And then we also have our natural human curiosity that could trigger this awareness.
“What’s after death?*, I think, is a collective question and a wonder of all humanity. Perhaps every sane adult human has thought and wondered about it at least once in life
This curiosity could then lead many people to finding out more. Some people take the Journey of research and study, and get a call to faith from their hearts - others don’t even take this journey.
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