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We were discussing in another thread about why prayers never get answered...another tidbit that always stuck in my craw. It always seemed to me that it was a colossal waste of time but I did it anyway. And I did a lot of it.
Someone I know who is religious is struggling with unanswered prayers.....I mean, it makes sense to question everything and there are verses in the bible that promise, promise that all you have to do is ask, and you'll get it. How much do you think that falls short? That is just one inconsistency and contradiction in the bible and there are many other religious texts that are as equally confusing.
When is promising to answer prayers just by asking but never delivering a good idea? Sounds like a very cruel con job that's been going on way too long. Doesn't that sound a little fairy tale-ish? If there were a god then why would he/she/it/they let prayers go unanswered, forever?
I think time is better spent helping those who need it and not just wasting time and energy on a no show. Saying "sending prayers" or "we'll pray for you" does not help anything or anyone.
Can anyone answer, truthfully and without quoting scripture or from some other text, that you have thought about unanswered prayers without using your religious model? It is possible. I highly recommend it.
Think outside the box of religion, what you have been taught or told. How do I really feel? Do I need to pray without ceasing or do I accept that it's never going to happen? Meditation and introspection sound more productive to me.
There is a site called "Why won't God heal amputees" that addresses the prayer issues.
They point out that Christians say God answers prayers "yes, no, and wait".
They then point out that those three options cover every possible outcome of a prayer request. The problem is that this is true regardless to what you pray to.
You could make a prayer request to the "Gallon Milk Jug" in your refrigerator instead of God and the outcomes would be "yes, no, and wait".
They further comment that we know just like the Christians that Gallon Milk Jugs can't answer prayers. But "the outcomes are the same as those we get when we pray to God".
Speaking for myself and not that site...
I would assume that Christians would say that you might ultimately get more "yes" answers from God than you would get from the milk jug because God can actually answer prayers as opposed to the milk jug where a "yes" answer would be totally random.
But I think it would be a great experiment to perform. God vs. the Milk Jug.
There is a site called "Why won't God heal amputees" that addresses the prayer issues.
They point out that Christians say God answers prayers "yes, no, and wait".
They then point out that those three options cover every possible outcome of a prayer request. The problem is that this is true regardless to what you pray to.
You could make a prayer request to the "Gallon Milk Jug" in your refrigerator instead of God and the outcomes would be "yes, no, and wait".
They further comment that we know just like the Christians that Gallon Milk Jugs can't answer prayers. But "the outcomes are the same as those we get when we pray to God".
Speaking for myself and not that site...
I would assume that Christians would say that you might ultimately get more "yes" answers from God than you would get from the milk jug because God can actually answer prayers as opposed to the milk jug where a "yes" answer would be totally random.
But I think it would be a great experiment to perform. God vs. the Milk Jug.
Haha LOL god vs. the milk jug, love it. I will definitely refer my friend to that site, what can I say, I just want to help and she isn't ready to hear what I am or what I think. So, all I can do is try and help with links to what she believes and leave me or my thoughts out of it. She probably already knows about that site, knowing her.
Yes, no, and wait....wait for what? All your teeth to fall out? When you're in cardiac arrest? Oh wait, if you're in cardiac arrest then you're probably praying, just in case, right? At least that's what the religious tell us.
The only thing that makes sense to me is that the FSM and Milk Jug are good comparisons. Prayer schmayer. Where's that meatball head when you need it?
We were discussing in another thread about why prayers never get answered...another tidbit that always stuck in my craw. It always seemed to me that it was a colossal waste of time but I did it anyway. And I did a lot of it.
Someone I know who is religious is struggling with unanswered prayers.....I mean, it makes sense to question everything and there are verses in the bible that promise, promise that all you have to do is ask, and you'll get it. How much do you think that falls short? That is just one inconsistency and contradiction in the bible and there are many other religious texts that are as equally confusing.
When is promising to answer prayers just by asking but never delivering a good idea? Sounds like a very cruel con job that's been going on way too long. Doesn't that sound a little fairy tale-ish? If there were a god then why would he/she/it/they let prayers go unanswered, forever?
I think time is better spent helping those who need it and not just wasting time and energy on a no show. Saying "sending prayers" or "we'll pray for you" does not help anything or anyone.
Can anyone answer, truthfully and without quoting scripture or from some other text, that you have thought about unanswered prayers without using your religious model? It is possible. I highly recommend it.
Think outside the box of religion, what you have been taught or told. How do I really feel? Do I need to pray without ceasing or do I accept that it's never going to happen? Meditation and introspection sound more productive to me.
Hey, North!
I think part of the problem is that 'we' think that because the bible says, "Ask and you shall receive" means that we 'shall receive' what we're asking for NOW, and HOW we want 'it'.
Jesus never said, "ask and you shall receive immediately, nor did he say to ask and you shall receive the EXACT way you want.
If I pray, "Dear Lord, please send me some money so I can get food to eat for a day", is it more important that I get the money, or that I get the food? If my neighbor comes over with a pot of stew...or if someone offers to buy me a hot dog...were my prayers answered?
A lot of times, prayers are answered, but not in the way we want. And because of that, quite often we think they weren't answered at all. To me, that's a mistake. God often looks behind the reason for our prayers, and distributes accordingly.
A lot of things have happened in my life because of prayer. Sometimes immediately, and sometimes months later. While *I* may think that I need an answer NOW, God knows that I don't.
But if I have enough faith in Him, He'll answer me when an answer is needed. Not necessarily when I WANT it, but when it's needed.
And what *I* think I need, isn't the same thing as when God thinks I need it.
Sometimes what we pray for, isn't want we need at all...
Jesus said `` seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all things will be added``........ So the way to get miracles from God is to repent and turn away from sin and believe with hope ....... Here Jesus Spirit has the Prayers called `authority of the believer` which rebuke the demon spirits to Jesus, rebuke the wicked fallen angels to Jesus name and rebuke the powers of darkness to Jesus name, giving Glory to God .... where Jesus spirit will rip this out for temporary relief from their menace, so have to pray many times and these spirits will come back, but eventually they go away ...... Other ways Jesus will hear the prayers and still with hope you would give up trying to fix yourself and miracles can happen, and Jesus said the `seed must die first `......... Still, good nutrition and some expensive supplements helps Jesus Spirit find lower the susceptible to ailments where the demons cannot hurt people worst .......... For prevention to ailments is to never complain about ailments, or tell others who will not pray for you as when people complain the demon spirit take up the call to bring more or bring it worse than it is
I think NS is suggesting to look at actual outcomes rather than theological equivocations. So far I'm not seeing that from our believing respondents.
If you Jesus simply says "ask and you shall receive" then if you have to qualify that with "well he didn't say immediately or exactly as you envisioned it" then this is indicative of a problem you're trying to deal with, which is, the need to differentiate answered prayer from the background noise of random happenstance. In this way getting a prayer answered is rather like getting an insurance claim paid, only worse. If we eliminate selfish or frivolous requests (god make me rich, god help me find my car keys) and just stick with "god please don't let my child die" and the like, then we are still left with the need to rationalize the child dying anyway. God called his angel home. God's ways are ineffable and past finding out, but he's got a good reason (we just have no clue what it might be, lol)
So again, if the Bible says "you only need a tiny mustard seed-sized smidgeon of faith, ask and you SHALL receive" with no qualifications or equivocations then where can we demonstrate that this actually happens?
And please even if you ignore the OP's request and trot out Bible verses they are no help. "You have not because you ask not; you ask and have not because you ask amiss". 'You're doing it wrong' -- the battle cry of hucksters everywhere -- is not what we're after here.
What is being misunderstood is to think that prayers are the same as begging. Yes, it is asking, but what is being asked for has a lot to do with where we are at spiritual maturity. Only children beg for candy and throw a fit when it is denied. Divinity is not Santa Claus.
Hardships, pain and suffering, disease and death are realities of life. Nobody escapes them. To think prayer can save one from these is being spiritually immature.
Prayer is for the Self, for the realization of our true essence, which is the same as Divinity. It is a seeking for the state of equanimity in the face of plenty as well as penury, strength and forbearance, courage in the face of uncertainties. It is about developing inner strength, and yes, prayer can and does deliver this.
prayer is also recognition and expression of gratitude for blessings received, not just for self but for all beings, for the earth and water and sun and air. it is an act of humility.
We were discussing in another thread about why prayers never get answered...another tidbit that always stuck in my craw. It always seemed to me that it was a colossal waste of time but I did it anyway. And I did a lot of it.
Someone I know who is religious is struggling with unanswered prayers.....I mean, it makes sense to question everything and there are verses in the bible that promise, promise that all you have to do is ask, and you'll get it. How much do you think that falls short? That is just one inconsistency and contradiction in the bible and there are many other religious texts that are as equally confusing.
When is promising to answer prayers just by asking but never delivering a good idea? Sounds like a very cruel con job that's been going on way too long. Doesn't that sound a little fairy tale-ish? If there were a god then why would he/she/it/they let prayers go unanswered, forever?
I think time is better spent helping those who need it and not just wasting time and energy on a no show. Saying "sending prayers" or "we'll pray for you" does not help anything or anyone.
Can anyone answer, truthfully and without quoting scripture or from some other text, that you have thought about unanswered prayers without using your religious model? It is possible. I highly recommend it.
Think outside the box of religion, what you have been taught or told. How do I really feel? Do I need to pray without ceasing or do I accept that it's never going to happen? Meditation and introspection sound more productive to me.
Did you always say yes to your kids, exactly when they asked?
I think NS is suggesting to look at actual outcomes rather than theological equivocations. So far I'm not seeing that from our believing respondents.
If you Jesus simply says "ask and you shall receive" then if you have to qualify that with "well he didn't say immediately or exactly as you envisioned it" then this is indicative of a problem you're trying to deal with, which is, the need to differentiate answered prayer from the background noise of random happenstance. In this way getting a prayer answered is rather like getting an insurance claim paid, only worse. If we eliminate selfish or frivolous requests (god make me rich, god help me find my car keys) and just stick with "god please don't let my child die" and the like, then we are still left with the need to rationalize the child dying anyway. God called his angel home. God's ways are ineffable and past finding out, but he's got a good reason (we just have no clue what it might be, lol)
But that's just it, Mordant. Jesus didn't just "simply" say "ask and you shall receive..." as if it was the ONLY instruction about prayer he had.
You gotta take EVERYTHING he said about prayer and put it all together. And one of the aspects of prayer he said is this: ThyWillBeDone. Those aren't just four 'little' words Christians (are supposed to) say at the end of a prayer. Those words have power behind them. They have meaning. So often we say them, but we don't really mean them. I we meant them we wouldn't get so upset when God doesn't give us what we want.
Jesus prayed in the Garden for his "cup to pass"...but only if it was his Father's Will; not his own. He also instructed others to do the will of Our Father; not our own. Even when he taught the disciples The Lord's Prayer, the prayer has the words, "...thy will be done..."
Too often we pray and expect God to align HIS Will with our own and not the other way around.
Quote:
So again, if the Bible says "you only need a tiny mustard seed-sized smidgeon of faith, ask and you SHALL receive" with no qualifications or equivocations then where can we demonstrate that this actually happens?
LOL! How many of us REALLY have that kind of faith? I know I don't. Starting out with faith is pretty easy. Keeping it up, well...that's a different story. Peter found that out when he tried to walk on water. His faith only lasted until a strong wind started to gust.
Quote:
And please even if you ignore the OP's request and trot out Bible verses they are no help. "You have not because you ask not; you ask and have not because you ask amiss". 'You're doing it wrong' -- the battle cry of hucksters everywhere -- is not what we're after here.
Then what is it you're after here? (No, I'm not being snarky. I genuinely want to know.)
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