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The technology you are looking for here is neural networks, which are simple computer models of brains. These learn from data being repeatedly input, with expected results modifying the neural network. So if you programmed a neural network only for it's own survival, this could be bad for people unless you 1) also use data that also programs for human survival, 2) use data that shows robot survival depends on human survival, or 3), have a neural network that is so far advanced (if possible), it understands humans are also sentient.
My worry is that such a network may learn things from data that we do not know is there, or allow it to find it's own source to learn from. Imagine a robot that learns what humans are doing to the planet. Having learnt from data, it does not have any specific rules about moral decisions other than what it has learnt from that data.
Fortunately the neural networks I train are not that complex, and are used for specific jobs such as game controllers or predicting what populations will usually buy in supermarkets based on what they have previously bought. For example, people who buy diapers are also more likely to buy beer.
That would need to be a big neural network that develops an internal model of the real world, and develops the ability to experience feelings (qualia). As we do not know how animals produce Qualia, we do not know if robots can (although looking at the evidence, they probably would).
The question is, compassion and empathy for whom? Humans or other robots.
Your false conclusions are the result of your basic premise that is simply NOT TRUE. Human reactions are NOT the result of some computational algorithm no matter how complex, period!! We have no clue how to interpret and measure the impact of individual predictors. Your internal model of the real world would depend on the right training sample size and learning rate which is inconceivable as Vizzini would say!
Mathematically, the gradient descent algorithms suffer from the issue of local minima and can never be assured of achieving the global minimum of the error function even if you had the correct sample size and learning rate! In Short, the human brain is NOT doing any such mathematical computational high jinks. The Composite Self (BEC) it is producing is ACTUALLY understanding and imposing that understanding on the data, something NO machine or mathematical computational high jinks can duplicate!!!
Is it different then " sentience" ? Qualia seems more like just a response to stimuli. Is that right.
I'm wondering would compassion or empathy be any different if it was for a robot or human. Or both at the same time.
Fascinating topic for me as a theist. Raises questions regarding the act of creation or creating. Questions of consciousness. What it is to be fully human.
It bothered me for a while too...as a Buddhist...but then I finally decided to remember that virtually all Thai Buddhist monks eat meat if it is given to them. And I don't quite buy into their 'well, we didn't kill the animal ourselves, so it's not an issue for our karma' thinking. What I have done is reduced my meat intake to one meal a day almost every day. That's best I can do.
I was vegetarian for a couple of years, late 2015 until sometime in 2018. I still have a lot of meatless days, and my food choices expanded greatly.
I am no longer vegetarian for a couple of reasons, but I do try to remember to think of the life of the creatures that died to feed me and be more aware of how the food got on my plate, some days with more success than others. I admit it's very easy for me to detach that package wrapped in styrofoam and plastic at the store from something that was once living.
I was vegetarian for a couple of years, late 2015 until sometime in 2018. I still have a lot of meatless days, and my food choices expanded greatly.
I am no longer vegetarian for a couple of reasons, but I do try to remember to think of the life of the creatures that died to feed me and be more aware of how the food got on my plate, some days with more success than others. I admit it's very easy for me to detach that package wrapped in styrofoam and plastic at the store from something that was once living.
I know, I could not kill my food, not anything with a face. But I sure can tear up a good steak if it's wrapped like you said. I feel terrible now.
I know, I could not kill my food, not anything with a face. But I sure can tear up a good steak if it's wrapped like you said. I feel terrible now.
When I was living in Bangkok I would take long walks...sometimes for as long as 8 miles...and I would simply explore whatever looked interesting, and in most places Thais were more than welcoming. One day I saw what looked almost like a huge circus tent, so I decided to go in and see what was going on. Unfortunately, it was where they were cutting large animals (already slaughtered elsewhere) into smaller pieces of beef, pork, and chicken. The big turnoff wasn't 'these poor animals' as much as it was that all the meat -- which would end up in grocery stores, restaurants, and so forth -- were out there in this hot tent (certainly in the 90s) with no refrigeration whatsoever. For months, every time I would sit down to eat I would think of that hot, humid tend and think that the meat I was about to eat was probably processed there or somewhere similar.
Sentience is the ability to perceive yourself as a unique, worthwhile living entity, that has the mental capacity (forebrain) to imagine a past, a present, and a future and your ultimate demise as an individual. It is closer to "Consciousness" rather than the ability to feel. Can they reason? Can they talk? If you put an electric shock or a butane lighter on some insects like ants, there is no doubt they feel PAIN, but the ability to suffer or respond to stimuli is not sufficient for Sentience.
Basically, does it have a SOUL? That's why we grant human rights to humans, but not to fish or insects or reptiles or flatworms or bacteria. Sure, certain human companion animals like dogs or cats, wealthy decadent idle rich humans imagine their 'fur baby' is just one step below humans or equivalent (All Dogs Go To Heaven) but we merely say cruelty to animals is a felony (in my state) but they dont get "Personhood".
Watch Star Trek: The Next Generation "The Measure of a Man" where the android Data goes on trial - is he sentient? Or does his owner/creator declare him "robot is my property" and wants to deactivate + disassemble him to study his positronic brain. But Data, does not want to die (be deactivated) so what rights does he have to refuse his own demise? One of the best episodes of the series.
Also, Isaac Asimov, "The Three Law of Robotics" will flesh out much of this arena. Science Fiction was talking about this stuff 100 years before it was apparent/relevant/in your face.
Sentience is the ability to perceive yourself as a unique, worthwhile living entity, that has the mental capacity (forebrain) to imagine a past, a present, and a future and your ultimate demise as an individual. It is closer to "Consciousness" rather than the ability to feel. Can they reason? Can they talk? If you put an electric shock or a butane lighter on some insects like ants, there is no doubt they feel PAIN, but the ability to suffer or respond to stimuli is not sufficient for Sentience.
Basically, does it have a SOUL? That's why we grant human rights to humans, but not to fish or insects or reptiles or flatworms or bacteria. Sure, certain human companion animals like dogs or cats, wealthy decadent idle rich humans imagine their 'fur baby' is just one step below humans or equivalent (All Dogs Go To Heaven) but we merely say cruelty to animals is a felony (in my state) but they dont get "Personhood".
Watch Star Trek: The Next Generation "The Measure of a Man" where the android Data goes on trial - is he sentient? Or does his owner/creator declare him "robot is my property" and wants to deactivate + disassemble him to study his positronic brain. But Data, does not want to die (be deactivated) so what rights does he have to refuse his own demise? One of the best episodes of the series.
Also, Isaac Asimov, "The Three Law of Robotics" will flesh out much of this arena. Science Fiction was talking about this stuff 100 years before it was apparent/relevant/in your face.
Your definition is...well...your definition. You've really presented a point of view. Which his fine...but arguable.
I believe animals should be included in that as well which causes a problem because I buy mass produced animal products. It's starting to really bother me for some reason.
Go for it.
I've been vegetarian since I was 16. That's 37 years. Never looked back.
Is it different then " sentience" ? Qualia seems more like just a response to stimuli. Is that right.
Qualia is experience. For example, we do not simply know something is red, we experience red as a color. It could be synonymous with sentience depending on how you define sentience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakback
I'm wondering would compassion or empathy be any different if it was for a robot or human. Or both at the same time.
Fascinating topic for me as a theist. Raises questions regarding the act of creation or creating. Questions of consciousness. What it is to be fully human.
I spent some time as a vegetarian for multiple reasons. Health, enviornmental, and I felt hypocritical as an animal lover.
Try to limit red meat intake now to once or twice a week, but it still feels like half measures.
May go back to being a vegetarian.
But a good prime rib eye is ....well....yummy.
We also limit how much meat we eat, and we only eat animals that have been able to live a more natural life. We do not eat factory bred animals. I do not feel hypocritical about them being sentient because I know the animals would not exist if they were not raised to be eaten.
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