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I understand your view but was not addressing it or whether I agree with it.
But since you brought it up, I think Buddhists get to describe their own beliefs and what they mean. And from everything I have read, Buddha himself allegedly said not to worship him and that he was not a god. So I would have to conclude that your definition of god is rather different from how it is generally understood and discussed. If all that is required for the label "god" is that a person or thing is highly revered, then by that definition one could say that Buddha is divine, but then I think you are doomed to talk past most other folks on this topic.
There are a large number of Chinese gods who actual people who were later promoted to this position. These different definitions of what a god is make the word appear meaningless.
I understand your view but was not addressing it or whether I agree with it.
But since you brought it up, I think Buddhists get to describe their own beliefs and what they mean. And from everything I have read, Buddha himself allegedly said not to worship him and that he was not a god. So I would have to conclude that your definition of god is rather different from how it is generally understood and discussed. If all that is required for the label "god" is that a person or thing is highly revered, then by that definition one could say that Buddha is divine, but then I think you are doomed to talk past most other folks on this topic.
Just most folks with a western mindset. Spiritualism is on life support in the west. Not all people in the west reject spiritualism or the divinity within. They reach for it within their own religious texts and then reach out to Eastern thoughts and practices. Spirituality does not cater to the lowest common denominator. It is state of higher evolution from the merely material.
When Buddhists revere Buddha, which they do, they are revering the divinity that exists in all of us. When they revere the bhikshus and give them alms it is the same.
Buddha did not write anything down, he taught. He taught the way to end suffering. No westerner on this forum who post prodigious number of posts , as far as I can see, would follow any of that because it is against what America reveres - capitalism and more capitalism. It would be sacrilegious. Just because one claims to be a Buddhist, after trying out several religions, his voice has no more authority than the Buddhists who were born on the same soil as Buddha himself did, and practice their worship.
Just most folks with a western mindset. Spiritualism is on life support in the west. Not all people in the west reject spiritualism or the divinity within. They reach for it within their own religious texts and then reach out to Eastern thoughts and practices. Spirituality does not cater to the lowest common denominator. It is state of higher evolution from the merely material.
When Buddhists revere Buddha, which they do, they are revering the divinity that exists in all of us. When they revere the bhikshus and give them alms it is the same.
Buddha did not write anything down, he taught. He taught the way to end suffering. No westerner on this forum who post prodigious number of posts , as far as I can see, would follow any of that because it is against what America reveres - capitalism and more capitalism. It would be sacrilegious. Just because one claims to be a Buddhist, after trying out several religions, his voice has no more authority than the Buddhists who were born on the same soil as Buddha himself did, and practice their worship.
I don't have a problem with you calling it worship or holding Buddha in reverence. But you go too far in describing how Buddhists treat Buddha as a god. And by the way, Buddha was not born in Thailand, Burma, Vietnam, China, or Japan, and yet there are Buddhists in all those (and many other) places.
You love critiquing my religious beliefs. I haven't returned the favor. I haven't talked about many-headed and many-armed gods and goddesses, half-human-half-elephant talking gods, or praying to bulls.
There are a large number of Chinese gods who actual people who were later promoted to this position. These different definitions of what a god is make the word appear meaningless.
What little I know about eastern thought is mostly Buddhist so whether these beings you are referring to are gods or demigods or ascended masters or ancestors I don't pretend to know. But I do know that Buddha did not want to be worshiped or even uncritically believed. He said you have to check out his claims for yourself basically. Also phet may happen to be a Western Buddhist but has gone to some lengths to study his faith in Thailand itself and with Thai congregations in the US, so I tend to trust his take on these things. And he has repeatedly said he does not worship Buddha and that members of his sect do not do so. That the shrines in his home have a different significance than that of god worship. I tend to believe what he says about whether Buddhism is theistic over someone trying to force-fit their own ideas from outside that faith.
What little I know about eastern thought is mostly Buddhist so whether these beings you are referring to are gods or demigods or ascended masters or ancestors I don't pretend to know. But I do know that Buddha did not want to be worshiped or even uncritically believed. He said you have to check out his claims for yourself basically. Also phet may happen to be a Western Buddhist but has gone to some lengths to study his faith in Thailand itself and with Thai congregations in the US, so I tend to trust his take on these things. And he has repeatedly said he does not worship Buddha and that members of his sect do not do so. That the shrines in his home have a different significance than that of god worship. I tend to believe what he says about whether Buddhism is theistic over someone trying to force-fit their own ideas from outside that faith.
Thank you.
It is an individual path, but western Buddhism does not impress me...except to often be almost pop Buddhism...which I dislike. But, to each his own.
Buddha did not write anything down, he taught. He taught the way to end suffering. No westerner on this forum who post prodigious number of posts , as far as I can see, would follow any of that because it is against what America reveres - capitalism and more capitalism. It would be sacrilegious. Just because one claims to be a Buddhist, after trying out several religions, his voice has no more authority than the Buddhists who were born on the same soil as Buddha himself did, and practice their worship.
Well I am no capitalist so I guess I have that going for me, lol.
I don't have a problem with you calling it worship or holding Buddha in reverence. But you go too far in describing how Buddhists treat Buddha as a god. And by the way, Buddha was not born in Thailand, Burma, Vietnam, China, or Japan, and yet there are Buddhists in all those (and many other) places.
You love critiquing my religious beliefs. I haven't returned the favor. I haven't talked about many-headed and many-armed gods and goddesses, half-human-half-elephant talking gods, or praying to bulls.
Go ahead and talk about all you know about Hinduism. I don't own it, it is not mine. What ludicrous ideas you have. Absolutely Hindusim embraces all of it. It also contains Advaita. So feel free any time you feel like expounding. While at it you may want to take a look at Greek mythology as well.
Buddha was born in only one place, like all humans do. Lumbini, in what is now Nepal which is 98% Hindu and he himself was a Hindu well versed in all its sacred texts. What shocked him into renouncing his kingdom and wife and child was the sudden exposure to suffering,, death and disease and poverty that he saw for the first time out of the palace, where he was sheltered until then. Renouncing the family and possessions is a time honored radiation in HInduism for those who seek enlightenment and he tred the same path. What he rejected was not wisdom within Hinduism but the rites. He took his knowledge to the poorest of the poor and the suffering, and taught the ways to nirvana. All this is within Hindu tradition. Worship is Hindu tradition. It is not the worship of the mortal body, it is the reverence to the divinity within. And that is what Buddhists do when they worship an image of the Buddha, which is not his name but a title, One Who Has Attained Knowledge.
What traveled to China and rest of Asia were the Buddha's teaching beginning with the Chinese and later also Muslim scholars who traveled India and studied Sanskrit and then translated those texts into Chinese and Persian. The East is land of richness in spirituality and reverence of knowledge.
It is pitiful really how little you seem to know about Buddhism that you seem to think you own. Go ahead and entertain us with your knowledge of Hinduism. You dont need my permission.
What little I know about eastern thought is mostly Buddhist so whether these beings you are referring to are gods or demigods or ascended masters or ancestors I don't pretend to know. But I do know that Buddha did not want to be worshiped or even uncritically believed. He said you have to check out his claims for yourself basically. Also phet may happen to be a Western Buddhist but has gone to some lengths to study his faith in Thailand itself and with Thai congregations in the US, so I tend to trust his take on these things. And he has repeatedly said he does not worship Buddha and that members of his sect do not do so. That the shrines in his home have a different significance than that of god worship. I tend to believe what he says about whether Buddhism is theistic over someone trying to force-fit their own ideas from outside that faith.
I dont know what Buddha exactly said. He had a few followers and he travelled to teach. What has been written down was some hundred years after his death. His words have been translated into Chinese and Persian because people revered his thoughts. I cannot imagine him asking to be worshipped. Nobody does that. Those who are touched by his teachings revere him, as people do to this day in the east, revere teachers because knowledge IS god. If atheist fear worship they should not worship. They however have nothing to say to those who are moved to worship and do. Thailand may have its own way of practicing Buddhism, as do the Chinese in communist China as do Balanese or Koreans in their countries, and Asians in Ohio.
Go ahead and talk about all you know about Hinduism. I don't own it, it is not mine. What ludicrous ideas you have. Absolutely Hindusim embraces all of it. It also contains Advaita. So feel free any time you feel like expounding. While at it you may want to take a look at Greek mythology as well.
Buddha was born in only one place, like all humans do. Lumbini, in what is now Nepal which is 98% Hindu and he himself was a Hindu well versed in all its sacred texts. What shocked him into renouncing his kingdom and wife and child was the sudden exposure to suffering,, death and disease and poverty that he saw for the first time out of the palace, where he was sheltered until then. Renouncing the family and possessions is a time honored radiation in HInduism for those who seek enlightenment and he tred the same path. What he rejected was not wisdom within Hinduism but the rites. He took his knowledge to the poorest of the poor and the suffering, and taught the ways to nirvana. All this is within Hindu tradition. Worship is Hindu tradition. It is not the worship of the mortal body, it is the reverence to the divinity within. And that is what Buddhists do when they worship an image of the Buddha, which is not his name but a title, One Who Has Attained Knowledge.
What traveled to China and rest of Asia were the Buddha's teaching beginning with the Chinese and later also Muslim scholars who traveled India and studied Sanskrit and then translated those texts into Chinese and Persian. The East is land of richness in spirituality and reverence of knowledge.
It is pitiful really how little you seem to know about Buddhism that you seem to think you own. Go ahead and entertain us with your knowledge of Hinduism. You dont need my permission.
i learn so much from cb's posts.
as do many many many other readers, i am sure of it.
the information, views, insights, and learning expressed in her posts
really add so much to the forum.
her posts are like finding a glittering diamond in the dust of daily life.
i learn so much from cb's posts.
as do many many many other readers, i am sure of it.
the information, views, insights, and learning expressed in her posts
really add so much to the forum.
her posts are like finding a glittering diamond in the dust of daily life.
You keep saying not to talk about individuals...and here you are talking about individuals.
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