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Old 02-24-2022, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,809 posts, read 24,321,239 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynaflex View Post
We don't attack "God". We attack the lie that there is a god, but heck, nice attempt at a strawman.
I don't think it's a lie. I think it's a mistake.
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Old 02-24-2022, 11:49 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I don't think it's a lie. I think it's a mistake.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynaflex View Post
Would you agree with "falsehood"?
Phet is being more objective because we simply do not know and cannot know the truth of the matter. Lie mistakenly attributes deceptive motive to the one asserting. Falsehood attributes an unsupportable lack of truth to the assertion. Mistake acknowledges a subjective opinion about the assertion.
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Old 02-24-2022, 11:57 AM
 
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I wonder how much time I have spent in this forum over the years addressing this issue of truth and how it does not depend on how we feel about it. Whether we think it is useful or not...

Religion, whether it is based on truth or not, has clearly been useful to millions of people over thousands of years. Useful in many ways both good and bad. Would be interesting to see what would happen if that usefulness were not so much a part of religion. By usefulness I mean the positive psychological effects. Of course there is the usefulness of religion with respect to gaining power and influence too. None of which necessarily has anything to do with truth. Most of which has nothing to do with truth for that matter.

No doubt that blurring of truth as a result of what we want to believe for other reasons will forever be a powerful influence when it comes to perpetuating religion into the future. Though it does seem those influences are not overcoming the fact that fewer and fewer people are associating themselves with a religion over time more recently. No doubt that trend will continue as the truth of these matters is further revealed and accepted by more and more people.
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Old 02-24-2022, 12:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynaflex View Post
Do you not think the Pope and all his Bishops etc., don't realize what they are selling is false? Of course they do. It is impossible not to.
One surely has to wonder...

And as the falsehoods bring "policy" that can no longer be considered tenable, they change the policy. So maybe what God passed forth as truth in the early going is being reconsidered a bit. Even by the Pope and the Bishops. Just like many in leadership positions of other religions have had to do too.
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Old 02-24-2022, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynaflex View Post
Would you agree with "falsehood"?
Based on the definition "the state of being untrue"...but again, I don't think there is any intent to put forward incorrect beliefs.
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Old 02-24-2022, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,809 posts, read 24,321,239 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynaflex View Post
Do you not think the Pope and all his Bishops etc., don't realize what they are selling is false? Of course they do. It is impossible not to.
I don't agree. I can't speak for the pope and the bishops, but I know people who honestly believe.

Again, in my view, it goes back to intent.
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Old 02-24-2022, 01:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Do the alternatives to the christian beliefs about what happens after death directly affect your thinking and actions?
As already agreed, no one actually "knows", empirically what happens after death?

All we have is faith when we try to tackle/ponder upon this natural human curiosity. It doesn't matter whether you are an atheist or a believer or an agnostic.

And once you have faith about the unknown, it could potentially effect your actions. Isn't this basic common sense?
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Old 02-24-2022, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,809 posts, read 24,321,239 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
As already agreed, no one actually "knows", empirically what happens after death?

All we have is faith when we try to tackle/ponder upon this natural human curiosity. It doesn't matter whether you are an atheist or a believer or an agnostic.

And once you have faith about the unknown, it could potentially effect your actions. Isn't this basic common sense?
I notice you didn't actually answer the question.
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Old 02-24-2022, 01:48 PM
 
6,115 posts, read 3,088,415 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I don't agree. I can't speak for the pope and the bishops, but I know people who honestly believe.

Again, in my view, it goes back to intent.
I sorta agree with this.

The guy jumps into the lion's cage and believes that Jesus is going to save him. (Yeah right).

Whether he was mentally unstable or he fell for this kinda philosophy that required some sort of out of the ordinary attestation to get reassurance of his faith.

On the other hand, followers of the same Christian faith, have done quite a lot of good things for fellow humans. This could be charity work, free hospitals, volunteering, sponsorship of good causes etc.

So your actions are potentially effected by your faith, INCLUDING your faith about what happens after death.
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Old 02-24-2022, 01:49 PM
 
6,115 posts, read 3,088,415 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I notice you didn't actually answer the question.
read above then.
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