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Yes, it depends on what you mean by productive.
Some people are here to learn about themselves even if (I suspect a lot of the time) they don't realise that's what they are actually doing.
Trouble is, most people don't take the time to think about human psychology.
Forcing your opinions and beliefs on someone else, especially if done aggressively will usually have a negative effect and only make those with opposing viewpoints dig in their heels even further.
Whereas, a gentle sharing of opinions and beliefs might at least have you listening to that person.
Our dear departed poster Woodrow LI springs to mind. He never got upset with anyone. The kindest soul that ever lived. He had some pretty out-there beliefs and he would answer any question about them with calm and humility.
I had a deep respect for him for that and probably learned a few things about Islam that I may not otherwise have listened to from other people.
In learning about others, you always learn something as well about yourself. Any new knowledge serves to make you a more rounded person.
I completely agree and I hope that others can benefit from what you have to say here.
"That's different", whether actually given voice or not, is the last resort of hypocrites everywhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
Quite a long time ago, well before I retired, I had worked with a fellow that was "born again". We certainly weren't close friends then, but sometimes due to work situations we would end up having dinner together. The problem was that he could never quite leave the proselytizing alone. Eventually we ended up working at different schools, but would occasionally run into each other, and would occasionally still grab dinner together. One such dinner I decided to turn the tables. Now I don't believe in proselytizing...at all. But I wanted to do a little experimenting. So when he started his usual spiel, I interrupted and began telling him how he was in the wrong religion, how we would end up in Buddhist hell (which I don't even believe in), and so forth. He got very upset about how I was attempting to corrupt him, even going so far as to put his hands over his ears, which caught the attention of people sitting near us in the restaurant. I didn't go to far with it, and then I said something along the lines of, "So when I won't listen to your proselytizing, you say I'm closed minded. But look what happens when the situation is reversed". "That's different!", and he slammed down enough money to pay his check on the table and walked out, and we never spoke again.
You see that way of thinking on this forum when people refer to the "refusal" to accept something. They are not refusing to see it your way. They just do not believe it.
You see that way of thinking on this forum when people refer to the "refusal" to accept something. They are not refusing to see it your way. They just do not believe it.
Exactly, and I mentioned this is another post today. As a young methodist and a young and middle-aged catholic I was a regular church goer...at least middle of the road. But it just didn't resonate for those 30 or 40 years. It wasn't a refusal to listen. It's just that the 'listening phase' was finished. It was time to chart a new course. Now, if some christian comes up with something really new -- when was the last time that happened? -- then I'll listen. But these fellows on this site that keep quoting scriptures I heard many times over many years seem blind to fact that other people simply believe other things. It kinda gets back to that Henry Ford quote that “If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got.†And so, they keep getting the same response from people like -- we're put the effort in, most of us over many years, and we simply believe something different.
And, they will NOT seriously consider those other beliefs. Do I think Baptist Fundie, for example, will seriously consider becoming a Buddhist. That's a laugh. Will he seriously consider becoming a Muslim. That's an even bigger laugh. And so on.
Exactly, and I mentioned this is another post today. As a young methodist and a young and middle-aged catholic I was a regular church goer...at least middle of the road. But it just didn't resonate for those 30 or 40 years. It wasn't a refusal to listen. It's just that the 'listening phase' was finished. It was time to chart a new course. Now, if some christian comes up with something really new -- when was the last time that happened? -- then I'll listen. But these fellows on this site that keep quoting scriptures I heard many times over many years seem blind to fact that other people simply believe other things. It kinda gets back to that Henry Ford quote that “If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got.†And so, they keep getting the same response from people like -- we're put the effort in, most of us over many years, and we simply believe something different.
And, they will NOT seriously consider those other beliefs. Do I think Baptist Fundie, for example, will seriously consider becoming a Buddhist. That's a laugh. Will he seriously consider becoming a Muslim. That's an even bigger laugh. And so on.
Everybody doesn't have to believe the same thing.
That is one of my favorite quotes. Didn't know it was Henry Ford. Heard it at one of the few Al-Anon meetings I attended. That's the best thing I got from it.
I hear you. It puzzles me that some people seem to think that if they recite a particular Bible verse, I will be struck by the truth and wisdom contained therein by the hearing of it.
Instead, it sounds to me as if we are back in Sunday School vying to see who could learn and recite the most verses. Am I supposed to be impressed? Hello--I already know those verses. I need something more than that.
I've told on this forum before about how I returned to an Episcopal Church about ten years ago, primarily for social reasons after having moved to a new area, but a part of me also wanted to go back and see if I had missed something because I never got these gaga feelings about Jesus that others seemed to experience.
I did get some spiritual growth by returning to that church, but still not in the way that that other Christians seem to. It worked better for me to see Jesus as a person who was a healer and a teacher instead of some supernatural power endlessly watching and pointing his finger and glowering at me for every slip-up. It was more about the community of people there. The connection when we shared communion was sometimes otherworldly, but it had to do with the connection itself, the caring and friendship of the people with whom I shared the ritual.
Life changed again, and while I'm still in contact with some of those people, I'm not in that physical place at this time and I don't have the need of the church community that I did then. I may again someday. Don't know.
I do know that I've met people of all faith traditions or none at all, and some were at peace with themselves and others, and some were not, and one religion did not seem to hold any greater validity than another except to the individual who practiced it.
That is one of my favorite quotes. Didn't know it was Henry Ford. Heard it at one of the few Al-Anon meetings I attended. That's the best thing I got from it.
I hear you. It puzzles me that some people seem to think that if they recite a particular Bible verse, I will be struck by the truth and wisdom contained therein by the hearing of it.
Instead, it sounds to me as if we are back in Sunday School vying to see who could learn and recite the most verses. Am I supposed to be impressed? Hello--I already know those verses. I need something more than that.
I've told on this forum before about how I returned to an Episcopal Church about ten years ago, primarily for social reasons after having moved to a new area, but a part of me also wanted to go back and see if I had missed something because I never got these gaga feelings about Jesus that others seemed to experience.
I did get some spiritual growth by returning to that church, but still not in the way that that other Christians seem to. It worked better for me to see Jesus as a person who was a healer and a teacher instead of some supernatural power endlessly watching and pointing his finger and glowering at me for every slip-up. It was more about the community of people there. The connection when we shared communion was sometimes otherworldly, but it had to do with the connection itself, the caring and friendship of the people with whom I shared the ritual.
Life changed again, and while I'm still in contact with some of those people, I'm not in that physical place at this time and I don't have the need of the church community that I did then. I may again someday. Don't know.
I do know that I've met people of all faith traditions or none at all, and some were at peace with themselves and others, and some were not, and one religion did not seem to hold any greater validity than another except to the individual who practiced it.
I know what you're saying.
One day as we walked out of church after Mass, the priest was standing there greeting people and he said to me, "How did you like the homily today?" I said, "Do you really wanna know?" He said he did. I said something along the lines of, "Did it ever occur to you that you could tell a story that wasn't about somebody B.C.? That was about somebody in the 1980s that we could actually relate to?" He quickly moved on.
Yeah...it's a hoot.
If a person isn't on here noting their own views to any avail...but have put up tens of thousands of posts over the course of a dozen years...what were they doing?
Well...besides busting on and interrogating others about their differing views and mocking the views themselves.
I think a few members have a "history" together in this forum. I wouldn't want to find myself a part of it.
One day as we walked out of church after Mass, the priest was standing there greeting people and he said to me, "How did you like the homily today?" I said, "Do you really wanna know?" He said he did. I said something along the lines of, "Did it ever occur to you that you could tell a story that wasn't about somebody B.C.? That was about somebody in the 1980s that we could actually relate to?" He quickly moved on.
The priest I had for five years that was simply wonderful DID take something out of the readings for the day and apply it to now. The one that replaced him is a nice man who likes to talk about what '"we" do or think or say that is wrong. Trouble is, he's usually not speaking for me. Didn't ask if I acted or thought or spoke that way. Plus you could fall asleep to his droning.
The priest I had for five years that was simply wonderful DID take something out of the readings for the day and apply it to now. The one that replaced him is a nice man who likes to talk about what '"we" do or think or say that is wrong. Trouble is, he's usually not speaking for me. Didn't ask if I acted or thought or spoke that way. Plus you could fall asleep to his droning.
Of course, we also had Father Doran for a while before he passed. He could say a regular mass in about 27 minutes. Good for me. And when he said, "The mass is ended. Thanks be to god", I thought he really meant it.
They cannot be anything else. That approach is church group. Of which some people are just not natural at church group. Hello...Welcome to [ church ] ? Have any seat you want. Or come and follow me, I'll show you to your seating. Do you suppose these people are more spiritually led by the spirit as some would think? Or wouldn't know. I just don't know. I've never known people like that. Though I've tried to figure their angle on the Ushering job. I still don't know.
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