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The new paganism manifests itself not just in the decline of the organized religion, but in the rise of the actual pagan religion: environmentalism.
When people think, at their core, that the Earth is better off without humans, they worship a piece of rock. That's paganism. The proverbial tree-huggers who think that trees have some objective reason to be there, rather than be there for human needs -- are pagan. Does it surprise you when you come to Sedona or New Mexico that there are so many seemingly sane people who want to be "one with nature"? Are they not pagan?
In Judeo-Christian tradition, man is given dominion over the planet and over all the living things. They exists only for us.
There is a radicalized and misguided small subset of environmentalists who see humanity as a cancer on nature or something like that, but most just want people to coexist responsibly with nature. That DOES involve giving up some of the luxuries we have become accustomed to because our profligate lifestyle isn't sustainable. But the alternative is human misery on a mass scale, and quite possibly outright extinction in the end.
The folks hanging out at so-called "vortexes" in Sedona are not for the most part environmentalists in my experience (I used to live in the Phoenix area). They are conspiracy theorists (usually of the aliens-among-us variety), mystics and believers in auras and the like ... various whack jobs, as well as people with more $$ than sense building 2nd or 3rd homes. There are a few nature lovers, in the sense that I loved to be out in nature in that area hiking, but not real tree-huggers. There are precious few trees to hug anyway; the stunted things they call trees in those parts are too thorny and shriveled to hug. A few pines in the elevations just above, I guess. Mostly it's a desolate place with pretty rocks.
Bolded is Perfect. When praying or wait and see without praying had the same results, because there were so few real treatments medically, nor globally accessible knowledge to guide decisions, religion was as likely as not. As knowledge and technologies march forward, the success rates of science, math, medicine, etc. vs. religion have shifted irrefutably. In repeated blind studies it can be shown that prayer makes any positive difference, technology on the other hand has saved many and improved living conditions.
I suspect you meant to put some negative qualifier in that statement. However, any such studies that have been done are truly BLIND, because there is no reliable way to determine sincere believers from the insincere claimed believers nor to separate sincere prayers from the insincere. The measure of success for any outcome also depends on the realistic expectations about the outcomes possible. In short, no matter how designed, such studies are inherently unscientific from a measurement perspective.
"Pagan" means rural dweller in Latin. Early Christianity was an urban movement, so the rural dwellers were the last to convert in an area.
Now Christianity is mostly a rural movement, and current rural dwellers will be among the last to abandon Christianity. Christianity is the paganism of today.
What replaces Christianity, is unknown. It will not be goddess worship, because there is no goddess and most everyone knows that.
One aspect of paganism that will return, I believe, is effective polytheism. We already see that in diversity, cultural mosaic type thinking. Arguably Christians today are already henotheistic and not monotheistic. That is, they worship their god and let others worship another god. Very few Christians today believe that their way is the only way. At least judging by their actions very few believe this.
West is becoming perverted and lascivious. Just like Rome, before it was destroyed by pagans.
Yes, pretty much this. Even a few secular types have said Western culture is in decline. In this video she talks about transgenderism as one major indicator. But she's talked about other indicators in other talks (large bureaucracies that stymie innovation, lots of comlexity in everything such as supply chains). And this woman is a Bernie Sanders liberal:
Whats wrong with Pagan? If being Pagan is getting back in touch with nature, I'm convinced we would could all do with a lot more of that.
^^^.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist
"Pagan" means rural dweller in Latin. Early Christianity was an urban movement, so the rural dwellers were the last to convert in an area.
Now Christianity is mostly a rural movement, and current rural dwellers will be among the last to abandon Christianity. Christianity is the paganism of today.
That is a keen observation, interesting how the demographic shifted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Twist
Every full moon we dance naked around the big oak trees in my woods.
SERIOUS Pagans do that in the WINTER....
The "Pagan" brush is a broad one, and may define anyone from an Atheist/Agnostic who likes nature and the outdoors to Wiccan/Witchcraft and so forth. A Millennial "Hipster" who lives in Portland and mountain bikes may be viewed as Pagan despite any other organized religion they may be associated with.
So addressing the OP and the thread topic, it would be hard to come up with meaningful research and stats in deciding any theistic shift in the population at large.
That is true , but what's happening is not that the west is becoming pagan, it's becoming atheist. Of all of our friends and relatives, only one sister goes to church. That includes boomers, Gen X, millennials and Zs. What's happening is the opposite of the 1950's-60's when the parents indoctrinated their kids with their religion. Now the parents are not religious, so their kids are not exposed to it.
How many of those non religious parents send their kids to catholic schools though?
Around here, the largest Catholic schools have waiting lists to be enrolled!!
How many of those non religious parents send their kids to catholic schools though?
Around here, the largest Catholic schools have waiting lists to be enrolled!!
I used to live in the Grand Rapids MI area, where the Christian Reformed church dominates, and it was the same thing there, the Christian Reformed school system was widely recognized as superior, and they had more demand than supply. They understandably favored their own member's children, so non-members getting their kids in was an accomplishment. I assume it's similar with Catholic school systems.
But here's the thing. People weren't necessarily (or in my view hardly at all) wanting to send their kids there BECAUSE the were church-run schools, but in SPITE of it. I sent my own daughter there and even though I was still religious back then (different denomination), the decision had nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with their reputation for being better educators and also safer schools. I wasn't well-off, and lived in a neighborhood on the edge of urban blight, and if I had not been able to afford the modest tuition my daughter would have gone to a badly run-down and poorly endowed public school. One of my clients at the time also sent his kids to the same school system, and he was a devout Hindu.
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