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Up until I was in college, I was always questioning religion and thinking about religious topics. When I was in 8th grade on a field trip for our school's intellectually gifted students, one of the other students and myself talked about religion the entire trip. He was a believer, and I was not.
I had an interest in black metal and other forms of "devil music," and still do. I was the quintessential guy listening to metal and wearing black in the immediate post-Columbine era. I was bullied as a kid, and grew up in Tennessee in an area dominated by Southern Baptists. I hated religion.
Over the years, I became at least more open to the concept of a higher power. One of my high school teachers was a minister, and we discussed religion for years. I went to his church for several years after high school. I was also very interested in religion in college, never really religious, but took many academic classes regarding religion.
Over time, I guess I've just become disinterested in it all. I haven't attended church in years. Really don't care about religion one way or another, aside from a vague belief in a higher power.
Does anyone else find themselves in a similar position?
what is black metal and devil music? If, as you claim, you are not a "believer," why is it you reference "devil" and seem to fixate on this "higher power" while saying you are disinterested?
I was raised as a catholic but it was always forced by my parents. I learned that their parents did the same thing to them when they were kids. Its a cycle, I tried to tell my dad that if his parents were Muslim, or Scientologists, he would be a devout Muslim or Scientologist today, he actually agreed!
I think religion is just convenient for them,its what they have always known, they are comfortable with it.
Personally though, I was not, It didnt make sense to me, so I looked elsewhere for answers.
I am a believer in Panspermia, I think that is the most logical explanation for our existence.
Up until I was in college, I was always questioning religion and thinking about religious topics. When I was in 8th grade on a field trip for our school's intellectually gifted students, one of the other students and myself talked about religion the entire trip. He was a believer, and I was not.
I had an interest in black metal and other forms of "devil music," and still do. I was the quintessential guy listening to metal and wearing black in the immediate post-Columbine era. I was bullied as a kid, and grew up in Tennessee in an area dominated by Southern Baptists. I hated religion.
Over the years, I became at least more open to the concept of a higher power. One of my high school teachers was a minister, and we discussed religion for years. I went to his church for several years after high school. I was also very interested in religion in college, never really religious, but took many academic classes regarding religion.
Over time, I guess I've just become disinterested in it all. I haven't attended church in years. Really don't care about religion one way or another, aside from a vague belief in a higher power.
Does anyone else find themselves in a similar position?
If I recall, you’re fairly young, correct? It’s a big part of coming into your own and then exploring whether the beliefs you were raised on are authentic to you. That’s a good and healthy thing
Serious Conversation - It sounds like your confusing religion and spirituality. All the negativity you've received has come from people, churches, and religion. But how about the one-on-one spiritual connection between you and God (or other higher power/force)? Maybe you haven't sought that, or experienced that, yet. We have every reason to be disinterested with religion, but how about the 'real deal'?
This is important. I think I've made it clear on this forum that I personally make a distinction between my affiliation with a church community and my spiritual beliefs.
I haven't always felt the need to have a church community, but I have one now because eight years ago I moved to a place where I barely knew anyone and it was a way to connect and make friends. It did end up furthering my spiritual growth in the way that only a community can, and it served its purpose and was what I needed at the time. Everything is temporary, and my affiliation with that community may end for me because now I spend time in an alternate universe away from where I live, but also that particular church itself may not remain open for much longer. I may or may not seek another.
Meanwhile, as I've also posted, while I follow a basically non-fundamentalist Christian path, I also acknowledge that there are other valid ways through which people reach what I refer to as God (sometimes in my brain as "Real God" to differentiate from that stern, frightening being on which I was raised, and I do smile at Transponder's "sortagod" term.) That journey I intend to continue.
By the way, OP. I am almost 60 years old. The journey can take a lot of twists and turns. I've had my atheist-wannabe periods that didn't work out, and I've explored and continued to explore the faiths and cultures of others just because it interests me and I've been exposed to them. (Last year I was working for Hasidic Jews, this year I work for a Muslim family-owned business.) In my opinion, if you ever get to that point where you say, "Yes! I've got it all figured out!" -- You don't.
Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 03-20-2018 at 07:32 AM..
If I recall, you’re fairly young, correct? It’s a big part of coming into your own and then exploring whether the beliefs you were raised on are authentic to you. That’s a good and healthy thing
I'll be 32 next month. Not exactly young.
I shared a Daily Mail post yesterday on my personal Facebook about spring break debauchery on a beach community in Texas. One of my aunts commented on it "Satan loves numb degenerates."
The people in the pictures were obviously drunk and sexualized. Still, I posted it for a laugh, not for a moral lecture. Maybe that's more common here in Appalachia than it is in normal parts of the country.
I shared a Daily Mail post yesterday on my personal Facebook about spring break debauchery on a beach community in Texas. One of my aunts commented on it "Satan loves numb degenerates."
The people in the pictures were obviously drunk and sexualized. Still, I posted it for a laugh, not for a moral lecture. Maybe that's more common here in Appalachia than it is in normal parts of the country.
I think there's 2 truths with respect to how this - having separate views to organised religion - can work, and they're both hinted at in the Bible. Unfortunately, they are both conjured and substantiated by people's 'heart felt' experiences, which may or may not be better than their imaginations. If it was just raw imagination, with no feelings of validity, I don't think people would go along with it the same.
Firstly, the principle of 'come out from them' - we are supposed to separate ourselves from people groups who are not practicing the truth, ... obviously as we individually understand it.
Secondly, a verse in both Isaiah and the new testament,. but with wrong intent in the latter with respect to where the way was to be prepared. 'A voice of one crying, "In the wilderness prepare the way of the Lord. Make straight paths for Him...."' (Isaiah version). This talks about coming out of the city, Jerusalem, where the religious groups were, to a solitary place, and finding how it works with God there.
The epistemology of faith is therefore not found and understood, until the separation in one's own heart, from the group has happened. Unfortunately, there are bitter threads observed in these pages time and again where people have got offended at the hypocrisy in religion and thought to hell with this and their God. And they're not wrong. It's not that Father I'm.trying to find.
But the distinction between corporate and personal is made in the heart - one doesn't physically have to ditch fellowship or church altogether. It can be of limited effect to be a thorn in the flesh to the religious corporates, who don't think for themselves, but like a child of the spirit/wind, Father will move/blow us to where He wants us - that could be anywhere.
One of the especially obvious yokes place round necks, particularly in the evangelical churches I've been in, is that of 'coming under the leadership' - authority. They make a case for this as per Apostle Paul's dictate to submit to those in authority. My understanding is that that, and to pray for those in authority may have been added to the 'scripture' afterwards, as we are admonished NOT to do, i.e. add or take away Where by contrast, Jesus was an egalitarian, and indeed Paul also captured that with a 'submit one to another' - implying it was supposed to be a gifting / body relationship between individuals where each one weighs and tests themselves. I think the appointment of elders and deacons was for expediency in what was then a fast growing company, and also some sort of acknowledgement of spiritual standing. Unfortunately now, the church isn't growing that fast, and they allow people into 'leadership' who will do as they're told, and because they want some sort of career in 'ministry'. It's just not the best way. If any group of believers could genuinely submit one to another under their different giftings/anointings - as opposed to just doing what the leader says - then there would be an outbreak of kingdom activity and growth amongst them. It's common sense really - let people do what they're good at.
Thanks for the thoughtful response.
"Submitting to one another" requires humility and open-mindedness that sadly is not at all encouraged, particularly in the evangelical world. I would also suggest that it's a bit inconsistent to adjure people to submit to each other and to also adjure then to submit to authority. This obliges believers to come up with strained interpretations of one or both concepts in order to reconcile them. I get where you're coming from here -- submission to authority as simply an aspect of mutual submission. But that hardly sounds like the plain meaning of "be subject to the authorities". It is totally understandable that literalists understand this as an incitement to hierarchy rather than to a sort of communal mutuality. The Son is subject to the Father, the Church subject to the Son, the wife to the husband, etc etc.
I still see religious faith's core problem as epistemological -- both a fatally flawed epistemology, and a lack of epistemological humility, which works against your goal of "mutual submission".
"Submitting to one another" requires humility and open-mindedness that sadly is not at all encouraged, particularly in the evangelical world. I would also suggest that it's a bit inconsistent to adjure people to submit to each other and to also adjure then to submit to authority. This obliges believers to come up with strained interpretations of one or both concepts in order to reconcile them. I get where you're coming from here -- submission to authority as simply an aspect of mutual submission. But that hardly sounds like the plain meaning of "be subject to the authorities". It is totally understandable that literalists understand this as an incitement to hierarchy rather than to a sort of communal mutuality. The Son is subject to the Father, the Church subject to the Son, the wife to the husband, etc etc.
I still see religious faith's core problem as epistemological -- both a fatally flawed epistemology, and a lack of epistemological humility, which works against your goal of "mutual submission".
Ok. I've had to look up this flawed epistemology of faith. The following is what I got:
I suppose I'd kind of agree with it. The part i think is intriguing is how it separates reason from blind faith. I think it would be a great stretch to say that believers do not reason, or think about their belief systems. But there's no getting away from that fundamental nugget of blind faith. Maybe you can help me decide whether I have that with respect to the following example...? As I was re-reading your post and then the article on the flawed epistemology of faith, I had the story of Jesus enter my mind where he was saying, "if you don't believe in me because of what I say at least believe because of the miracles". I would say I believe what he said was true and also the miracles he did actually occurred. What proportion of that is blind unreasoned faith, and what proportion may be evidentially reasoned in terms of the worldwide legacy of faith/belief and signs/wonders performed since JC was around...?
On the other point, I just don't accept authority as legitimate if it doesn't serve people. I don't go around making life intentionally hard for myself, with respect to civil or supposed spiritual authority, but i think Ghandi had it right, with peaceful resistance. ....I'd go as far as to say that this resistance is on the increase, and will increase in the next few years as people rise up and reject illegitimate authority, both civil and spiritual, and the people of the earth will enter a new era, maybe even of mutual something or other.
Last edited by Age-enduring; 03-21-2018 at 04:04 PM..
I don't know where I am with it all. Struggling for sure. I feel almost like a nihilist lately.
With the death of my mother the way she went out - to see my dad have lost her like the way he did, it's been tough on my faith.
I honestly don't know. When I've been at my lowest though faith/Christianity/God has all I felt I had left. Material things don't mean as much to me - it's all going to be gone in the end. Even every person I walk past and interact with will be gone soon. Are we all going to an eternal "box/grave"? ALL of us? To have 100 billion people on earth trampling on our graves and progressing on into some futuristic world?
I pissed away 10 years of my life and I will not forgive myself for it. I don't think I'm going to find a partner now so I don't know what's going to happen with me. There are too many things I can't forgive myself for.
I will be dust soon enough...sooner rather than later. We all will be. I asked Christ to come in to my heart. That was all I could do. I'd rather have at least that much in a world so far gone than to have nothing at all, even if it seems contrived or "fake".
I don't know where I am with it all. Struggling for sure. I feel almost like a nihilist lately.
With the death of my mother the way she went out - to see my dad have lost her like the way he did, it's been tough on my faith.
I honestly don't know. When I've been at my lowest though faith/Christianity/God has all I felt I had left. Material things don't mean as much to me - it's all going to be gone in the end. Even every person I walk past and interact with will be gone soon. Are we all going to an eternal "box/grave"? ALL of us? To have 100 billion people on earth trampling on our graves and progressing on into some futuristic world?
I pissed away 10 years of my life and I will not forgive myself for it. I don't think I'm going to find a partner now so I don't know what's going to happen with me. There are too many things I can't forgive myself for.
I will be dust soon enough...sooner rather than later. We all will be. I asked Christ to come in to my heart. That was all I could do. I'd rather have at least that much in a world so far gone than to have nothing at all, even if it seems contrived or "fake".
I think you need to listen to this (I've been listening to this very one today!) and the rest of his YouTube channel posts. Tony is passed on now, but his wife Martha is adding the material I think. Also, check out Mike Nevins channel.
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