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This is pretty much the same fear-mongering that has taken place since religion was invented.
Every religion and even many cultures have a built-in propaganda apparatus that says: "Unless you live by OUR rules and worship OUR God, bad bad bad really really bad things will (and are) happening to the whole nation."
Every time there is a natural disaster, an act of terrorism, a national tragedy such as Sandy Hook, or even an economic crisis, there will always be those primitive fanatics who will try to convince people that we are being punished collectively for a bunch of sins. Oh yeah, and it's no coincidence that the "sins" we're being punished for always corrolate precisely with the very things the fanatics hate.
Thus, when there is another *inevitable* (note the emphasis on the word "inevitable" because it is precisely that: inevitable) ... when there is another inevitable natural disaster or national tragedy, the fanatics will haul themselves out of their Montana bunkers to scream about how it's all the fault of allowing gay marriage, it's because we took prayer out of the public schools, it's because of the feminists, the atheists, the intellectuals, or even the ACLU.
And I assume that everyone -- and I do mean everyone -- is supposed to run to the nearest fundamentalist/evangelical church, praise whatever god is worshiped there, and realize that if we all stopped sinning, there would be no more earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, floods, or wildfires. Even better, if we all kissed the floor with our noses genuflecting to these wicked gods, international terrorism would stop cold and all the psychos in America who can now buy a gun (thanks, Trump, for that) will give up their plans to shoot up another elementary school and instead become normal, productive, and peaceful citizens.
Yeah! That's how it's supposed to work .... I guess .... somehow.
Except we all know that disasters are inevitable and will always be inevitable.
But there's nothing like a good school shooting or big act of terrorism or a destructive natural disaster that can be used by these unscrupulous and deceitful churches to get more butts in their pews.
No, there is no god sending down punishments because your religion didn't get its own way in court.
You paint with a broad biased brush there, don't you? I wouldn't agree with any of the things you've listed there or your discourse on the reason behind natural disasters, but of course that doesn't matter, does it?
First, start with self. Willingly lay self and all it's bitterness, resentment, and hanging onto a cross that wasn't yours to hang onto in the first place (you know what I mean, the Spirit just pricked you with it), and quit using it to manipulate others, and then you'll find that He was there all along, just waiting for you to look up, because that dark room you're in has no door in the walls you've built around yourself but it does have one on the roof. Look up, and the lifter of your head and the lover of your soul will come. Aren't you tired yet? Lay it down. Peace
You paint with a broad biased brush there, don't you? I wouldn't agree with any of the things you've listed there or your discourse on the reason behind natural disasters, but of course that doesn't matter, does it?
First, start with self. Willingly lay self and all it's bitterness, resentment, and hanging onto a cross that wasn't yours to hang onto in the first place (you know what I mean, the Spirit just pricked you with it), and quit using it to manipulate others, and then you'll find that He was there all along, just waiting for you to look up, because that dark room you're in has no door in the walls you've built around yourself but it does have one on the roof. Look up, and the lifter of your head and the lover of your soul will come. Aren't you tired yet? Lay it down. Peace
Not all Christians are the same. Not all Baptists are the same.
Speaking only for our family, The Bible, with its principles and tenets, is our guidebook for life. We preach it, believe it, obey it and live it. Many churchgoers/religious people do not.
"Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature", was the last commandment given by Jesus in the New Testament. That is why we tell others about the death, burial and resurrection of Christ who was crucified for the sins of the world (the Gospel). He told us to tell everyone. Some consider that "shoving it down our throats." Christ is just that offensive to people.
People are free to reject Him, the Bible, His commandments. People are free to not believe. All we can do is tell them ... once. After that, we should shake it off and move on.
People who try to control you are wrong. People who try to control and silence Christians are just as wrong. You vote your beliefs, values, principles and convictions. So do we.
Some Christians are political and crazy. Some atheists are political and crazy. Some Mormons are political and crazy.
And it's not lost on me that someone like Ashley Judd or Madonna can get up and spew foul mouthed hatred and get applause, but let an obscure Baptist in the middle of nowhere talk about God and all hell breaks loose with "those crazy Christians destroying America". SMH
But I don't sweat it. It will all be sorted out in the end.
Last edited by SouthernProper; 08-24-2017 at 06:47 PM..
You're kidding, right? I mean, you *do* live in the United States, I presume? Because your comment above makes me think you don't.
Absolutely. And I get to vote. Do you realize that?
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Atheists and pagans are not imposing any type of morality (or lack thereof) onto anyone else.
Sure you are. Every time you vote you express your worldview. The same as I do.
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What we atheists have *always* espoused is for our government to give everyone the *choice* to decide for themselves what their moral compass ought to be and how far to take it.
You're not REALLY that naive, are you? You make judgments every day on morality. Heck, the current argument about whether to legalize marijuana is an argument on that. But I'm guessing you oppose choice on a lot of things.....such as expression of religion in the public square, as well as other things.
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If you think giving people the freedom to make their own decisions is "imposing our morality or lack thereof" onto society at large or controlling the culture, you're one confused puppy.
Freedom to make what decisions? You are certainly in favor of limits to freedom on many issues.
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Take the best example of the last 40 years -- marriage equality, also known as the "gay marriage" war.
WE atheists were not imposing morality of any kind. Instead, most of us defended the right for gays to marry because not everyone sees homosexuality as immoral. Rather, it was the fundamentalists and evangelicals who were imposing their morality on the rest of society by saying gay marriage must be banned because THEY believed it was immoral.
Of course you are. You would want to impose law on us that changes the status quo.
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In other words, all 320 million Americans would have been forced by the government to obey the Bible whether they were Christian or not, whether they believed homosexuality was immoral or not. After all, why should two gay Hindus give a damn about what the Bible says -- and why should two gay atheists be forced to treat their own lifestyle as "immoral" because a God they don't believe exists says it is?
The fact that the bible agrees with the law is irrelevant. THe Bible also condemns things like murder. If we use your logic, we ought to toss that out, as well.
Yes--Christians are influenced by our faith, and we vote our consciences. That does not mean that we want or that we vote for a theocracy any more than if your worldview might agree with the Bible means YOU vote for a theocracy.
You've bought into this false notion that if anyone is in any morally influenced by their religion that they cannot possibly expect society to function in a way that they want. But we are people, too.....so get over it.
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Atheists merely want to live in a nation where we have the choice, the freedom to choose, for ourselves the path of our lives ... and NOT have someone *else's* belief system dictating to us what we can and cannot do.
Good for you. And we wish to not have YOUR belief system dictate to us what we can and cannot do. That's why we have rights and we are guaranteed certain freedoms. You don't get to call the shots.
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That is NOT imposing morality onto anyone nor is it controlling the culture. In fact, it is the fundamentalists and evangelicals who wish to impose their moral system onto society at large and control the culture -- as if they believe that our culture belongs to them and them alone. Those Christians acted as if their religion owned marriage and thus had the right to decide for the entire country who could and couldn't marry.
Of course it is. Every decision you make regarding any type of moral behavior, and then want society to reflect it is an attempt to impose your system of morality. It doesn't matter whether you get that system of morality from religion or from your own personal beliefs...it's your morality. You have no more a right to impose it on me than I have to impose mine on you. But you can vote. I encourage you to vote for the candidate you wish to see in office.
The fact that the bible agrees with the law is irrelevant. THe Bible also condemns things like murder. If we use your logic, we ought to toss that out, as well.
Baptists bring up this argument all the time as if somehow it's supposed to justify their culture war. Can you not see that there is a difference universal morality i.e. things that violate the golden rule such as murder, rape, theft, etc and subjective morality i.e. things that may or may not be permissible according to religious tradition but don't actually harm anybody?
Also, nobody is forcing you to get married to somebody of the same sex or even accept gay marriage. In fact, if your child came out as gay you still have the right to kick them to the street just as they have the right love who they please.
Last edited by bawac34618; 08-28-2017 at 05:32 PM..
Baptists bring up this argument all the time as if somehow it's supposed to justify their culture war. Can you not see that there is a difference universal morality i.e. things that violate the golden rule such as murder, rape, theft, etc and subjective morality i.e. things that may or may not be permissible according to religious tradition but don't actually harm anybody?
Also, nobody is forcing you to get married to somebody of the same sex or even accept gay marriage. In fact, if your child came out as gay you still have the right to kick them to the street just as they have the right love who they please.
Again....you vote for what you want, I'll vote for what I want. I DO get to vote my conscience.
Political threads are not allowed in any of the religion forums. Seems it tends to lead to denominational bashing.
From the sticky rule atop this forum:
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Some topics are not appropriate for these forums, particularly when those topics cross that invisible, and sometimes difficult to define, line between religion and politics. Somebody has to figure it out, and the Moderators got the job.
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