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And your transient job work reminds me of growing up in an AF family, traveling across both oceans..
I'm retired Air Force. Somehow, I only did the Pacific. However, in a strategy to keep me with my family, I always volunteered for long tours overseas as much as possible. We were nomads (daughter born in the Philippines, son born in Hawaii), but we stayed together.
And I had some fantastic fellowships with Christians from other countries where "Christian" is not the default. It's a very different experience coming to realize that my fellow kinsman is really the man on the other side of the planet who obeys the same king I obey.
I'd like to see that among Christians so badly in the US, to see us realize that we are citizens of Heaven only on a temporary deployment to the US.
I'm retired Air Force. Somehow, I only did the Pacific. However, in a strategy to keep me with my family, I always volunteered for long tours overseas as much as possible. We were nomads (daughter born in the Philippines, son born in Hawaii), but we stayed together.
And I had some fantastic fellowships with Christians from other countries where "Christian" is not the default. It's a very different experience coming to realize that my fellow kinsman is really the man on the other side of the planet who obeys the same king I obey.
I'd like to see that among Christians so badly in the US, to see us realize that we are citizens of Heaven only on a temporary deployment to the US.
I agree with the thought about Christians in other countries. As an AF dependent (father retired as Msgt, sister retired as CMsgt) we lived in England and Japan as well as several locations in the U.S. from Calif. to Ohio to Georgia (Hunter AFB, now gone) to Keesler and finally Dad retired after working with reservists in Vancouver, WA.
The service has its own kind of community and we attended chapel now and then, but it wasn't until Biloxi that my parents really had more continuity in their faith. Myself, I went into the Marine Corps and served on Okinawa and Vietnam. Very little time in the states during my four years as I kept volunteering to go back overseas (I was an idiot!! ).
But meeting people in other countries who were believers under difficult circumstances changed my own view of how AMERICAN christians should operate. I do not believe churches should have an American flag sitting inside their premises. God is not the god of a nation but the God of the entire world. I consider myself a patriot, but do not sing patriotic songs in church. Nations and nationalities are equally subject to the authority of God, and, for me, flag waving is an attempt to turn God into a tribal deity. In fact, one of the great German theologians, either Karl Barth or Paul Tillich (can't recall right now) warned the United States after WWII that it should be cautious of slipping into the trap of turning God into that tribal deity we think fights on our side against others for whom Christ also gave His life for.
Bottom line, my "international" experience, such as it is, has made me see that God is not in this nation, rather this nation is in God's world.
I know I have to keep remembering that the majority of my brothers and sisters in Christ are not my twins in belief. But that doesn't mean they are not my spiritual brothers and sisters.
Being from the South, I have been to many different churches. It's still very much separated by color, but it's changing. Some don't want it to, some do. Race relations is still an issue here, especially with the older generations. Their views are hard, beat into their heads. Of course, their are exceptions. You've just gotta be the change and not just talk about it
We are black, and we now attend a predominantly (not wholly, but predominantly) black non-denominational near-megachurch church in Plano TX (a growingly more diverse area).
This is, however, the first time since 1980 that we've attended a predominantly black church. Over the years, we have attended mostly white congregations (including one that had a Puerto Rican pastor who preached a mean gospel sermon).
We've attended a mostly Asian congregation where my daughter was baptized in the Pacific ocean by a Fijiian pastor.
We've been the only black members of a tiny rural Maryland congregation of retired white farmers (and it was a long, strange journey that landed us there). Not only was I the only black man, I was the only man beside the pastor still earning a wage. Yet, it was a fulfilling period, and that was the only congregation that gave us a warm farewell when I got transfer orders. I'm still not a great fan of country gospel, but I have to admit the Holy Spirit was there.
We've been lost in a predominantly white mega-church.
We joined a smallish white storefront church where the pastor had preached, "If this congregation is still this white in a year, we're doing something wrong."
Why have we done this? Because while overseas--13 years in the Far East--we worshipped with Christians in places that "Christian" was not the default religion--where Christians were separated from politics and more or less in tension with their governments. That is a whole different Christian experience.
I find it immensely frustrating that I agree theologically with so many white Christians, but we are separated by American politics.
Passive aggressiveness on your part. Mind you, I offered up a very good explanation that had nothing to do with bigotry but rather about the different cultural values of different groups when they worship. And, holy smokes, you just didn't even remark on it. I mean, how come you aren't going around and worshipping in a primitive Baptist or Greek Orthodox Church? Why not a Church of Christ? Because, if you actually attend church at all, those various other churches do not speak to your value system, your aesthetics of worship, or your theology. But rather than address that, you simply plow ahead with your pre-determined thesis, whether it has any basis in fact or not. Given the fact that you didn't even bother addressing my suggestions, I'm guessing that you really didn't want a discussion at all.
More to your point, what are people supposed to do? Drag people of differing ethnicities and social classes out of their cars and into the sanctuary? Shove the hymnals into their hands and make them follow along? At what point do you draw the line between evangelism and abduction? Or, more in keeping with Christ's message in the world, do we simply welcome anyone who walks into our church, inviting them into the broader spiritual life of our church? I mean, how many times has a street preacher approached you and invited you to attend, yet you did not? If so, congratulations, you just self-segregated yourself based on any number of factors. Yet you want to point the stinky finger of blame at other people.
And as far as the social justice bit is concerned, I belong to a church that is keenly aware of the need to advance social justice, commits to it with money and energy, and is outspoken on the subject even when it means taking an unpopular stance. I don't need a keyboard warrior to lecture me on the subject, thanks. That just means you buy your virtue cheaply.
You are taking this very personally, to the point of editing your posts to write even more angrily, and I'm not sure why. I don't know if you have a problem with me specifically, or you don't like me talking about self-segregation in churches, or what, but I'm really not interested in your hyperbole being tossed at me.
Regardless, I will respond to whatever portion of anyone's post that I feel like, and I responded to the portion of yours that I felt like I needed to address. You for whatever reason, still seem to think I am advocating dragging people into church against their will, which has literally nothing to do with my OP, so I really don't have anything else to respond to.
I mean this as a genuine, serious question, with no criticism intended.
Dr. King is famously quoted as calling 11:00 on Sunday morning the most segregated hour in America, and it seems to be almost as true today as it was then. Things have gotten better, yes, as some larger churches seem to be better at attracting a more diverse congregation. But it remains that most churches do not have racial, ethnic, or economic diversity.
What can be done about it? What would make you want to go to a church where your race or ethnicity was not the majority?
What is your church doing about it? Does your church reach out to people from all walks of life, and how? How do you make people feel wanted and welcome when they are not the majority (whatever that may be)? For that matter, does your church actually want a diverse membership, or is everyone very comfortable with the way things are?
I appreciate all responses and look forward to a civil and enlightening conversation.
Real simple. Teach congregations that when He said those that are led of the Spirit are the sons of G-d, it meant first of all, THAT HE LEADS. I've been the only white person in an all black church, and the only white person in an all Native American church, at different times in my walk. The Spirit recognizes no such man made boundaries, we are to go (or not) wherever He leads us, whenever He says "go". I've also crossed denominational man-made boundaries, as He said, "go". Fear is a killer, and G-d has not given us a spirit of fear. Peace
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
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I think the core issue is over time White and Black churches came to have vastly different focuses. Whites, the group with the most power and wealth, came to associate poverty with sin (sinful choices hurt your income) while Black churches tend to focus on social justice issues and the message that God hears their grievances just like he heard Israel's cries when under Egyptian bondage.
I think the core issue is over time White and Black churches came to have vastly different focuses. Whites, the group with the most power and wealth, came to associate poverty with sin (sinful choices hurt your income) while Black churches tend to focus on social justice issues and the message that God hears their grievances just like he heard Israel's cries when under Egyptian bondage.
This has been associated with the kinds of hymns one hears (or at least heard, traditionally) in the respective congregations. "Onward Christian Soldiers" and "A Mighty Fortress Is Our God" have not been traditional favorites in African-American congregations, which were more likely to sing "Leaning on the Everlasting Arms" or "Nearer My God to Thee."
And, yes, white congregations were more likely to map themselves to "Israel in the Promised Land" while black congregations were more likely to map themselves to "Israel in Bondage."
The New Testament actually maps the Church to "Israel in the Wilderness"--not still in bondage, but not yet in its Promised Land.
I mean this as a genuine, serious question, with no criticism intended.
Dr. King is famously quoted as calling 11:00 on Sunday morning the most segregated hour in America, and it seems to be almost as true today as it was then. Things have gotten better, yes, as some larger churches seem to be better at attracting a more diverse congregation. But it remains that most churches do not have racial, ethnic, or economic diversity.
What can be done about it? What would make you want to go to a church where your race or ethnicity was not the majority?
What is your church doing about it? Does your church reach out to people from all walks of life, and how? How do you make people feel wanted and welcome when they are not the majority (whatever that may be)? For that matter, does your church actually want a diverse membership, or is everyone very comfortable with the way things are?
I appreciate all responses and look forward to a civil and enlightening conversation.
My church is beginning a slow conversation toward being more inclusive. Since I've started going the pastoral team has realized that this has to happen, due to the way I've been treated by a few people there. I've gotten a lot of support going to people individually and sharing my journey, but the fact is that the church as a whole isn't there yet. We are unsure of what will happen, if we'll stay together or split. But my pastors know that the church absolutely has to be fully inclusive if we want it to be Christ's church.
My church is beginning a slow conversation toward being more inclusive. Since I've started going the pastoral team has realized that this has to happen, due to the way I've been treated by a few people there. I've gotten a lot of support going to people individually and sharing my journey, but the fact is that the church as a whole isn't there yet. We are unsure of what will happen, if we'll stay together or split. But my pastors know that the church absolutely has to be fully inclusive if we want it to be Christ's church.
One thing that has to go is politics.
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