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Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,922,771 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepymewo
LT The eagle has laws in his mind, and that is why it flies.
That is not an eagle. That raptor is not even indigenous to the Americas.
It is a red kite.
Why am I not surprised that on a discussion of religion, that facts always are assumed, misconstrued, misrepresented, ignored, or just plain stated out of ignorance (as in non-knowledge).
There are only two commandments one needs to know:
I will not cover my lackings in specifications, as I am what you sew. As when I was studying your language, none helped but harrassments. Now take all that I can offer or ignore me. I tried.
Sorry for the outburst again. If a son asks for life, will father throw a sperpent.
I already told you I am a slave/servant, so your lives and family bussiness were not really my concern.
Back to the raptor or eagle thing. You know there are a lot of dog breeds, even some mixed breed dogs; if you will name each of them: the list will never ends. Work for the breads that last. Something are just temporal. Don't waste your time and brain spaces for them.
The church is essential, but many leaders are ignorantly detouring their altready disconnected disinterested and lukewarm believers, who choose to getting fat on whaterver
pops from the pulpit often from personal philosophy circumventing non ear tickling biblical content. Stop telling lambs that we are nolonger umder the Law. "I come
not to abolish the Law, but to fullfill it" FULLFILL does NOT mean to end that which is not abolished ...duh! (example)I have
a glass of water, which I'm filling to drink the cottonpickin water
not to fill it to toss it out !!! ....wow. Baby christians ( not all) see the OT as " old" obsolete or nolonger applicable, relevant ..that bad ... that wrong! There are three prophecies that have yet come to pass ! Baptism in Jesus name has three witnesses
Matt 28:19 has one (biblically misinterpreted ) ( in the mouths of two or three witnesses!) Even in Matt. Jesus is referring to Himself! Wake up church either knuckle bump Peter Act 2:38 or Justin Marytr who believed Jesus name alone inadequate...really? And the church covering their mess with " Jesus only Doctrine" another...really?
Hebraic Idiom, to fulfill the Law means to explain/understand it correctly...To through down the Law means to explain/understand it correctly...
Hebrew Idioms: Matthew 5.17
Perhaps the most misunderstood Hebrew idiom in the New Testament is the famous comment that Jesus made in Mattew 5.17: Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
For the last 2000 years, this comment has been understood by the Christians to mean that ‘the Law and the Prophets’ have been replaced by the Law of Christ…..and thus ‘the Law and the Prophets’ are largely irrelevant.
Secondly, ‘the Law and the Prophets’ were written for, and refer to, the ethnic Jewish people who rejected Jesus as Messiah, and continue to do so. Therefore, ‘the Law and the Prophets’ must, for Christians, be treated with suspicion, and should be regarded as an historical anachronism.
These views spring from a tragic and fundamental failure to understand that Matthew 5.17 is a classic, common, frequently used Hebrew idiom.
An amplified translation and explanation of Matthew 5.17 is as follows:
Jesus was speaking to Jews in His Sermon on the Mount, and many of the Jews who listened to Him were of the Scribes, Pharisees, Sadducees, Chief Priests, and Elders, as well as thousands of non partisan Jews. So, Jesus clearly states that He does not want any of the Jews to misunderstand what He has come to do. Therefore, He begins by saying, ‘Do not think or misunderstand My mission’.
Furthermore, do not think or assume that I have come to destroy by interpreting incorrectly the Law that God gave to Moses on Mount Sinai, or the teaching of the Prophets that they gave to Israel under the anointing power of God.
I have not come to misinterpret the Law and the Prophets.
Rather, I have come to bring to you an understanding and interpretation of the Law and the Prophets which will explain how God wants you to behave in your lives, and how He wants you to relate to Him, to your families, friends, acquaintances, and enemies….with the right attitude.
The Rabbis discussed, and argued in the first century, about ‘the Law and the Prophets’. If they disagreed with each other….which they did frequently…they would accuse those who disagreed that they were ‘destroying the Law and the Prophets’.
For the Rabbis, ‘to destroy’ actually meant that a particular interpretation of some passage or verse was wrong, and therefore, was destroying ‘the Law and the Prophets’. It did NOT mean, and never has meant, that ‘the Law and the Prophets’ was replaced, abrogated, or superceded.
Similarly, if two Rabbis agreed with each other about the interpretation and understanding of a passage, one might say to the other: ‘You are fulfilling the Law and the Prophets by interpreting this passage as God intended.’
Jesus was using a common Hebrew idiom that was used time and again in Rabbi’s discussions.He was saying that His mission was to explain, and correctly interpret, ‘the Law and the Prophets’…..so that ALL people could understand how to behave towards each other and towards God.
What is most amusing is watching people try to defend something with the words within that something. The OT didn't have an Article V, like the US Constitution had. There was no authorization expressed in the OT to revise, extend or "fulfill" the OT. That was something that the NT self-ratified, and in doing so what that ratifies is the right for anyone who has a personal revelation to rely on the content of that revelation to revise, extend or "fulfill" prior standards. Effectively, the most significant impact of the NT on the matter of legitimacy of religious law is that it said that all statements of religious law are equally legitimate. The only way to differentiate one from others is to establish supremacy through some other means. The favored means for millennia has been the right of conquest - suppression of opposing perspectives by often brutal and sometimes barbaric force, and the abuse of excessive power to perpetuate control. Now, in an environment where people are no longer as easily abused as in the past, traditional religion finds its corrupt approaches no longer effective.
m And one brings you a bread in the name of your loving Father. You could go on debatingthe authenticity of the bread, or you could eat the piece of the bread and be satisfied and become stronger. he messenger charges not.
Or one could bring you dust and call it bread in the vested interest of their chosen self-deception. That's really the crux of the matter. You want the bread to be bread - you want it to be The Bread - and your desire in that regard is appreciated, but it is just a desire on your part. A reasonable person cannot expect their desire to trump the truth others perceive, given that truth is based on the evidence of the senses while desire is based on personal preference, and a reflection of a hundreds upon hundreds of years-long power play against humanity. That's really why this realization about personal revelation is so important. It is literally corrupt to claim any specific revision (for example, one from two thousands years ago) was the last one that mattered, especially when that specific revision itself ratified the fact that later revisions supersede previous revisions. We live in a world of change. That's the way God made it, as clearly visible through your own eyes and in your own hands. Plant a seed and it grows. Change is natural. Change is a reflection of the divine. Nothing in God's universal remains static. The efforts to adhere to some static view of truth and meaning is therefore inherently false.
The efforts to adhere to some static view of truth and meaning is therefore inherently false.
You make some very good points, however, the thing about the New Covenant is that it is not based on laws, but on a universal principle: concern for the well-being of everyone in any situation. Your statement above apply to specific applications perceived about how to attain that goal in the particular values of a society (laws, mores), and any such need to be examined in the light of current conditions to have their purpose carried out rather than the particulars of the rule. "The letter kills but the spirit gives life." Any attempt to use Jesus' statement about fulfilling "law" to impose the particulars of the laws rather than fulfill the purpose of any law is precisely opposed to what Jesus taught and lived in every example of his life.
You make some very good points, however, the thing about the New Covenant is that it is not based on laws, but on a universal principle: concern for the well-being of everyone in any situation. Your statement above apply to specific applications perceived about how to attain that goal in the particular values of a society (laws, mores), and any such need to be examined in the light of current conditions to have their purpose carried out rather than the particulars of the rule. "The letter kills but the spirit gives life." Any attempt to use Jesus' statement about fulfilling "law" to impose the particulars of the laws rather than fulfill the purpose of any law is precisely opposed to what Jesus taught and lived in every example of his life.
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