Atheism will eventually lead to Nazism in America

[fishbrains]

Many allegations. Lots of fearmongering. No proof or reasoned thought. Another overwrought post to ignore.

[TroutDude]

Give me an atheist with a conscience over a Christian who thinks he has one, any day.

[Adrian71]

I know of one group that bills itself as anarchistic but most certainly has white nationalist overtones. They claim to be atheists. But you're talking about a small minority of people within a larger group (atheism) that itself is a minority group in the USA.

I don't deny that difficult times can drive people to extreme positions. That is indeed what helped give Nazism a foothold in Germany. But although I appreciate your concern about seeing the same thing happen here and now, I wouldn't be sounding the alarm bells just yet.

However, if fascism does arise in the USA, I have a suspicion it will come from other sources besides atheists. Flag-waving nationalism, scapegoating of an entire religion, and rabid support of violence and militarism tend to come from a religious and political viewpoint other than the one you express concern about. I'll just leave it at that.

[Shirina]

Originally Posted by Artifice32

I'm not knocking atheists in general so don't take this as an affront if as an atheist reading this you, personally are not capable of this. I get ticked at you guys just as I get ticked at the Fundamentalists but in reality there are some really good atheists on here just as there are some really good Fundamentalists on here. However, as the economy begins to decline there will unfortunately be greater elements of Nazism in this country--Nazism in Germany was partially a workers, partially a patriotic movement which may explain why the Germans impoverished after WWI took to it at first.

Here's a quote from Sinclair Lewis: "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."

That is something I truly believe - especially when you consider that fascism is the ultimate right-wing ideology. Who do you suppose are mostly right-wing? Oh right, fundamentalist and evangelical Christians. Just look at how the Bible Belt votes and you'll see that I'm 110% correct.

Atheists tend NOT to be right-wing because that side of the political divide doesn't like atheists all that well. Ever watch Fox News? Uh huh, perhaps you should and then you'll get a taste of how much righties like we atheists.

There is NOTHING in historical precedent that says atheists and Nazis have ANYTHING in common. WE are the people Hitler threw into camps ... or do you think Hitler really really loved liberals, intellectuals, and free thinkers, hmm?

You're barely out of the gate and already you're deadbang wrong.

Originally Posted by Artifice32

I'm not a psychic and I'm not a genius, but it is hard to ignore the reality on social media such as Facebook the greater presence of atheists who take to Nazi doctrine either in part or in whole.

And how many atheists would that be, exactly?

Originally Posted by Artifice32

I subscribe to CNN posts and there people will honestly post Nazi flags; I'm sure if I subscribed to Fox News I would maybe not see the Nazi flag but I would see the rhetoric. In free speech theology groups there, which I only briefly joined, it is very common to run into atheists who are Nazis or agree in many aspects of the Nazi agenda.

Ever hear of something called a "wind-up troll?" Those are posters who infest un-moderated or lightly moderated message boards. They LOVE getting people all riled up by posting extreme nonsense like Nazi flags and professing to be atheists (because atheism gets people riled up, too). These are the people who have no boundaries - nothing is too extreme if they can get someone to have a meltdown. Believe me, I know the type because that's where I cut my teeth as a message board poster - the un-moderated jungle.

Which means I don't even trust that these so-called atheists flaunting swastikas are at all real. As I said, Nazism is at the extreme right and almost all neo-Nazi groups are Christians. No atheist I've ever met would feel either comfortable or particularly welcomed within a neo-Nazi organization. By the very nature of atheism, we champion freedom - especially freedom of/from religion. Nazi fascism is diametrically opposed to such freedoms; why any atheist would jump on the fascist bandwagon is unknown unless these particular atheists are just idiots and haven't a clue what neo-Nazism is all about.

My guess is what you're seeing are those wind-up trolls. I've seen them all over the place saying the dumbest, wildest, or most offensive things they can come up with and Nazism is one of their favorites because it gets the Jewish posters in a tizzy.

Originally Posted by Artifice32

As more and more whites become marginalized in this stagnant and possibly turning bad economy more and more will Nazism be prevalent to the point where it becomes a valid thread in this country.

No.

You're looking in the wrong place. What this nation truly has to fear is corporate fascism, not Nazism. We're well on our way to corporate fascism already - and think about how the company you work for operates. It is the very model of fascism. The Occupy Wall Street movement wasn't flying swastikas, now, were they. Nope. The next big revolution in this country will almost undoubtedly be between the classes, not some pointless ideology about race and ethnicity. Persecuting Jews again won't put food on anyone's table.

Originally Posted by Artifice32

As a Catholic it is impossible to be Catholic and maintain any sort of Nazi leanings; the ideas go against the teachings of the Church as well as the global, diverse reach of the Church. Islam is in many ways the same, where congregates are from diverse ethnicities praying together. The mainline Protestant Churches that were started in Europe with congregates in Europe, America, Latin America, Africa and Asia very much accept the doctrine of the equality of spirit. Even in American churches, such as mainline Evangelical, there is a direction of greater diversity as more and more diverse audiences are attracted to it. However, there are those very segregated churches in America--in general uncommon--whose belief system is premised on ideas contrary to traditional Christianity.

Completely untrue.

As I said, you should do some research on the voting habits of the Bible Belt - the very same region of America that defended slavery with the Bible and STILL does to some extent.

When you talk about churches running contrary to traditional Christianity, you're not talking about a handful of backwater churches in Nowheresville. Uh uh. Pretty much the entire Land of Dixie falls under that umbrella (and yes, I know there are good Christians there, too, just not enough to influence the vote).

Originally Posted by Artifice32

However, the big threat comes from atheist communities who begin to take onto ideas such as eugenics, social Darwinism, inequality among racial groups, an identity rooted in race....etc...that will begin to become inevitably a new Nazism in this country. Also, ethical atheists who lived during the sixties, seventies, eighties and even nineties learned from experience the dangers of any ideology that promotes a sense of superiority at the expense of other--Civil Rights, the Vietnam War, the Korea War, the Cold War.

Your theory is really off the rails at this point. And here's why:

Who did Hitler put into concentration camps? Jews, communists, intellectuals, liberals, free-thinkers, gypsies, gays, Slavs, and an awful lot of professors.

Who do people on the far right in America dislike? Muslims, communists, intellectuals, liberals, free-thinkers, the poor, gays, and colleges in general.

Hmm. Notice any similarities there? Any? Any at all?

If we swap out Jews for Muslims and the gypsies for poor people, well ... other than the Slavs, we have an identical match.

The point here is to show you that fascism is NOT going to come from atheists. Not by a long shot. The fascism you fear so much will come from the far right, a land filled with fundamentalist and evangelical Christians, the same people who idolize the rich and their corporations (which are also inherently fascist) and they even worship a fascistic God. Atheists in general are not right-wingers and those that are certainly aren't FAR right - because that's where atheism isn't allowed.

I don't know what kind of garbage those so-called "atheist Nazis" are feeding you, but it doesn't make a lick of sense. If you're worried about Nazism, which is as far to the right as anyone can get, then being suspicious of atheists is almost funny. Atheists would be more inclined toward the opposite spectrum which is socialism and/or anarchy.

Originally Posted by Artifice32

Unfortunately, there is a group of younger Americans whose only recollection of history is a horrible economic downturn, marginalization, a war premised on killing based on ideology instead of threat as well as other foreign concepts that will eventually lead to a new Nazi movement.

Actually, I doubt that very much. As I said, fascism will come from the church, from the religious right, the politically conservative - and I've explained precisely why. Any movement with atheists at its head will be more in line with leftist ideologies - which isn't to say that atheists are all communists and socialists. No, not at all. Yet history plainly shows that conservatives like to restrict, prohibit, and ban whereas liberals like to abolish restrictions, lift prohibitions, and remove bans. Like it or not, that's how it works in this country. Atheists are not going to latch on to a rightist movement toward fascism knowing they'll be some of the first people squashed by the very thing they helped create. The only reason why atheists are even allowed to express ourselves openly is because of liberals and a flimsy sheet of paper called the Constitution.

If you doubt that, I should link to you a YouTube clip from Fox News where they actually debated on whether or not atheists should just "shut up." Now, could you imagine if they had a debate like that about any OTHER minority group? Yeah ... and Fox didn't even have the decency to invite an atheist to the debate. Nice, huh? So even in a debate about shutting up atheists, an atheist wasn't allowed to express his/her opinion on the matter. And so it goes ... but you're not exactly batting a thousand with this theory of yours. Because why in hell would atheists jump on a far-right bandwagon that wouldn't even allow them to debate on their own right to free expression?

[agnostic soldier]

Nazism is a theistic ideology which means saying atheism leads to Nazism is like saying Christianity leads to Maoist Communism. You're also talking about a minority of atheists when the majority of atheists and agnostic do not do this. If atheism leads to Nazism then you would expect the majority of atheists to lean toward Nazism when this is not the case.

[june 7th]

Thread closed pending moderator consideration.