Intolerate Atheists Demand Removal of Memorial

[ashleynj]

I think it's silly. To get bent out of shape over some crosses on a memorial is a waste of time. Of course getting bent out of shape about baking a cake for a gay wedding is silly too. The things we have time to worry about in this country.

[UsAll]

Here's an idea. Since there are those here that advocate for "freedom of religious expression and the prevalence of religious symbols" to be prevalent on public lands and in public buildings, we shall, from now-on, institute the following practices on as well as within ALL public properties and lands throughout the land (the USA):

1. The Islamic star and crescent (symbols) shall be installed and placed along the lengths of all walls in all public buildings and on the outsides of all public buildings and they shall each be large and prominent;
2. The tops of all public buildings shall all have a large Islamic dome built on top of all of them;
3. There shall be an Islamic prayer room built onto every single floor of every single public building;
4. All females public employees (on every level of government), at least while they are on-the-job, shall be required to wear full head-to-toe burkas and those that refuse shall be dismissed from their jobs;
5. All foods and beverages served in public buildings shall strictly abide by Islamic dietary laws;
6. All non-Islamic religious holidays and events shall be banned and hence the only time-off from work for public employees shall be for Islamic holidays;
7. A Bible shall never ever be used inside any level of courtroom (city, county, state, federal) but instead shall be replaced by a Koran along with the Hadiths;
8. Every public park shall have both a prominent mosque + an outdoor prominent Islamic prayer area built within it.
9. and so on and so on.

Does that meet with the approval of all the varied Christians here? Or even if just one of these ideas being instituted (e.g., just the installation and placement of Islamic stars and crescents along the whole length of the walls in ALL public buildings) or just a few of these ideas being instituted (e.g., the placement of Islamic stars and crescents + the building of a large prominent Islamic dome on the tops of ALL public buildings ... or all public parks having large prominent mosques and public prayer areas built within them)? After all, what right do you have to inhibit the freedom of expression and practice of Muslims?

[MartinEden99]

Originally Posted by usall

does that meet with the approval of all the varied christians here? Or even if just one of these ideas being instituted (e.g., just the installation and placement of islamic stars and crescents along the whole length of the walls in all public buildings) or just a few of these ideas being instituted (e.g., the placement of islamic stars and crescents + the building of a large prominent islamic dome on the tops of all public buildings ... Or all public parks having large prominent mosques and public prayer areas built within them)? after all, what right do you have to inhibit the freedom of expression and practice of muslims?

god mister...thast where i got my right!!!

[Nozzferrahhtoo]

Originally Posted by jeffbase40

I made a clear case of my position.

And it was destroyed. But you refuse to acknowledge that, instead choosing to ignore the posts that highlight this fact.

Originally Posted by jeffbase40

A cross memorial represents the deceased, and is not making a religious statement to the public.

Not buying that at all. It is clearly a religious symbol and clearly associated with Christianity. If you remove the religious aspect of it, then it is also clearly a representation of a long dead society tradition of torture and sacrifice. Hardly a fitting memorial to a passed loved one.

Originally Posted by jeffbase40

We are a civilized modern society. Surely, we can come up with a solution that pleases all parties.

Yep. Its called Secularism. Try it sometime.

Originally Posted by jeffbase40

But one side of the debate refuses to compromise or even listen.

Yes. YOU. As evidenced by your refusal to take any points on board, your ignoring of posts that destroy your position or do not fit the false narrative you are failing to establish about atheists.

Originally Posted by jeffbase40

You say you have seen nothing about the government suppressing freedom of religion. Again, I bring up the Christian baker.

And bringing it up again is just further evidence that it is you and you alone refusing to compromise or listen. Because your example of the baker has been rebutted multiple times, and the position and narrative you have attempted to build off it has been demolished.

The fact is this example is NOT an example of government suppressing freedom of religion. It is an example of a law that applies to everyone, being applied to someone who broke it. Get over it.

Originally Posted by jeffbase40

How is that not suppressing religious freedom?

Told you that multiple times already. Just told it you again now. I fully expect you to ignore it all over again and tout your little false "example" later on when it again suits you to produce this little red herring.

Originally Posted by jeffbase40

You know governments can create unjust laws, right?

Of course. And the CORRECT response to that is to campaign against the law, have it repealed.

The incorrect fetid little response to it is to cherry pick a single application of this wide ranging law, and build up a false narrative about atheists and imaginary persecution of Christians off the back of it. You know this. I know this. Everyone reading this thread knows this. So what you hope to gain by pretending you do not know this, and engaging in that tactic anyway, I honestly do not know.

Originally Posted by jeffbase40

Like I've said before, I've based my perceptions on atheists on my personal experiences.

Nope, it is clear from a number of your posts that you base your opinion of atheists on simply making it up out of your head. You then support this little narrative of yours by simply outright ignoring everything and anyone who does not conform to that fantasy. You ignore all rational arguments and rebutting points, and instead focus disproportionately on any posts that even remotely fit the narrative you have constructed from yourself. You simply constantly misrepresent atheists by making up things about them. Even the very opening post of this thread contained outright falsehoods which you were called on, but never retracted.

Originally Posted by jeffbase40

And those experiences involving atheists have always always been 100% negative.

You misrepresent them. You even lie about them. You ignore them when you can not rebut their points. You make up narratives about them and cherry pick data to support that. Exactly how do you want to have a positive experience with them when you conduct yourself in this fashion. You treat people badly and dishonestly, then your experience with them will of course be negative. But it is you, not they, who are to blame.

Or put another way "Its not them, its you".

Originally Posted by jeffbase40

None? Ok, here is one example. The school had to tear down the banner because apparently atheists find anything from the Bible to be so offensive.

More of your making things up again and misrepresenting the motivations and reasons atheists have for their actions. You just cant help yourself can you.

Originally Posted by jeffbase40

Sorry, but I don't see a sincere desire to educate me beyond telling me to go take a civics class. lol Here's a tip if you truly want to someone to listen to you. Be nice.

See what I mean? You contrive to respond to only the posts you imagine fit your little narrative of atheists being condescending and insulting. Yet any posts that do not fit this narrative, and contain actual reasoned rebuttals and points.... you simply skip over those ones and retreat. They do not fit your imagined little narrative, so you dismiss them and run.

[KCfromNC]

Originally Posted by jeffbase40

A cross memorial represents the deceased, and is not making a religious statement to the public.

Then why all the claims that this case has anything to do with anyone's religious freedoms? Seems like proponents of this memorial on public school property need to pick a side- either it is a secular monument therefore calls to change it have nothing to do with religion, or it is a religious monument and calls to remove it are attacks on religious liberty. The fact that the argument from the people wishing for the crosses and angels to stay keeps changing all the time is very curious.

[ptsum]

I wonder, can I put up a sweat lodge and a long house on that same property in memory of all of the native people that were killed in order for that school building to be built on property that was stolen?

[old_cold]

Originally Posted by ptsum

I wonder, can I put up a sweat lodge and a long house on that same property in memory of all of the native people that were killed in order for that school building to be built on property that was stolen?

Would you settle for that to replace the Statue of Liberty?

[ptsum]

Originally Posted by old_cold

Would you settle for that to replace the Statue of Liberty?

yes I would, because that statue does not represent my people.

[old_cold]

Originally Posted by ptsum

yes I would, because that statue does not represent my people.

Sounds fair to me. Of course, it wouldn't cover those approaching our country from the south, north or west.

[monumentus]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

I would hope that our freedom of religious expression . . . especially in the public square where freedom of expression is most valuable . . . will also be honored.

Have at it - but do not have it sanctioned by being hosted by public buildings and institutions - or paid for by the public coffers. The "Public square" encompasses a lot of things. Too many to be a useful phrase. There are sub sets of that greater set - when expression should not be allowed of that sort. For reasons many users have covered on this thread already.

What is _not_ honest - is the tactic of you and others - of taking times where people have stood up against one locus of such expression - and declaring they are against any and all forms of public expressions of faith.