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We so often hear the excuse in discussions that we have free will which is supposed to explain away inconvenient questions. Most of you know that I do not believe in this concept and playing semantics using choice instead of will really does not alter the reality we find ourselves in.
I will lead off with this premise.
We do not have free will as most of what we experience is life is circumstantial. We are not able to determine our destinies as we really do not have a crystal ball.
Cause and effect does come into play but how much of the cause are we able to control? The concept of free will infers we are free agents when the simplest secular things like obeying traffic laws are essentially choiceless. When it says speed limit 55MPH you are obliged to conform to that or suffer the consequences. Sure you can ignore it and speed. The consequences would be a fine, endangering yourself and others, losing your licence or getting demerits and so on.
In this simplest of traffic laws, we are required to become conforming drones. Behind the scenes there may or may not be justification for said laws; lets assume there is justification.
The deterministic POV one can explore from the place your were born, major life events and the choices you made. How much of that was under your direct control? Or did you merely make a choice on those available to you at that time?
The religious component here would be predestination aka Calvinism or "free-will" aka Arminianism. Both of these doctrines are supported (supposedly) by the same bible.
How many eat out places are you able to order stuff not on the menu?
We so often hear the excuse in discussions that we have free will which is supposed to explain away inconvenient questions. Most of you know that I do not believe in this concept and playing semantics using choice instead of will really does not alter the reality we find ourselves in.
Over to you. Please think before you post.
The gift of free will is given to us by God for the specific purpose to either accept or reject Him and receive His Love. If people believe in the Bible story of Adam and Eve, they are the first examples of free will in action. They rejected Him.
As to our material lives on earth apart from God, our free will choices are limited due to various circumstances and the ever increasing laws placed upon us by governments, etc. I live in a housing development with an HOA and therefore, it was my free will choice to move here knowing there would be times my free will would be infringed upon... like when speed bumps were installed a few years ago. That said... I ain't moving.
I have no substantive disagreement with SeekerSA. Free will is mostly an illusion. Choice is limited. Sometimes, in some ways, we have enough decent choices that we can find enjoyment and fulfillment (again within limits). Happiness basically consists in having low enough expectations combined with good enough luck and lots of mental and existential flexibility. I see it as a sort of "framing game" where "stuff" falls from the sky, reframing your reality, and then you reframe your view of reality in response, to make best use of your "new normal". We are kept busy with this constant churn, and our constant engagement creates the illusion of free will, progress, meaningful activity, etc. The key seems to be, to not take any of it seriously. It is an absurdity; laugh at it.
People who play the victim will always "explain away" the God-given free will they have to make choices in their lives. It's always someone else's fault. In some minds, that's God. It's sad and pathetic.
The gift of free will is given to us by God for the specific purpose to either accept or reject Him and receive His Love. If people believe in the Bible story of Adam and Eve, they are the first examples of free will in action. They rejected Him.
Odd that you would lead off here with an example that is clearly a pre-deterministic one. They had no free will as they were required to obey. In fact this such a poor example as based on the tale, they had no idea of what the consequences would be. Who actually told them the truth? The snake. Eve does not die and offers the fruit to Adam and the only result is they become aware of their nakedness.
There is a pretty good vid that explores the aspect what if Adam refused to eat the fruit? Adult content (cannot find it right now, perhaps another poster can)
We enter a realm of what iffery that would negate the rest of the biblical tale. Would they have been kicked out of the garden? Who would till the fields? It is a set up to lend credence to the rest of the story and the beginning of deflection of consequence. If you actually study the tale, it is Cain who has the run in with sin and not Adam or Eve. Furthermore, why place a forbidden tree there plus the snake in the first place. This reeks more of a predestination to failure.
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As to our material lives on earth apart from God, our free will choices are limited due to various circumstances and the ever increasing laws placed upon us by governments, etc.
As soon as you introduce the word "limited", you have conceded that we do not have free will. Either it exists or it does not.
This is precisely the type of rhetoric I want to challenge to help you folk realise that if it does not work in the secular sense, how on earth can it work in a religious realm?
If you had been born in a predominantly Hindu nation you (probably) would NOT be a christian. Most of your biases you learned from your parents and the peers you grew up with. IOW, these factors were outside of your agency of control and as such were "predestined" to make this particular choice. Not to mention the coercion afforded to you by way of preying on your natural fears.
Yes we make choices, however, all of those choices are governed by stuff we cannot control.
Even a simple task of brushing your teeth is not really a free will choice. You have no way to prevent your teeth getting furry, you have to eat to survive, bad breath would make others avoid you and most of all, the inevitable consequence of rotting teeth would be the outcome for NOT brushing your teeth. None of these factors are under your direct control.
Despite our best efforts, we still get cavities. Part of this very much an issue of wisdom teeth erupting horizontally and placing pressure on the other teeth. We have evolved with smaller jaws yet still sit with four too many teeth. But this thread is not about evolution. All I want you to see is just how little control you have in the mundanest of stuff we all do. Not to mention we only get two sets of teeth, we cannot will more no matter how hard we try.
The gift of free will is given to us by God for the specific purpose to either accept or reject Him and receive His Love.
If it was really free will there would be more choices than just those two.
If I placed you in a room with two doors and announced that going through Door A will lead to unlimited and perpetual happiness, and Door B will lead to endless suffering, I have stacked the deck. "You are free to choose" say I, but it is very much the same choice an armed robber gives you..."You money or your life...choose!"
People who play the victim will always "explain away" the God-given free will they have to make choices in their lives. It's always someone else's fault. In some minds, that's God. It's sad and pathetic.
Theists are the ones that play the victim and deflect consequence of choice to imaginary beings. However this addresses none of the points I have raised, think before you post.
If you have some theological argument, discuss Calvinism or Arminianism; its on the menu. I will not respond to twaddle like this again.
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