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Old 03-22-2013, 11:17 PM
 
Location: Someplace Wonderful
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post

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PS Jesus does not appear in Samuel, the chronicle of someone who lived some 1200 years earlier. The Jews were monotheists and would not have cottoned to all that trinity stuff. Your substitution of "Jesus" for "God" is intellectually dishonest and shows no understanding of context.

PPS I guess we should toss the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution because, after all, those documents were written by slaveholders, misogynists, smugglers, and tax evaders.

Last edited by june 7th; 03-24-2013 at 08:38 AM..
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Old 03-24-2013, 06:06 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
No.

At least our religion doesn't teach you can beat your wife.
... anymore.
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Old 03-24-2013, 06:09 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clevergirl05 View Post
Have you ever noticed that the bible rarely tells you the names of women?
Here are some examples:
1. Adam and Eve’s daughters: names not mentioned in the bible (3 of their sons – Cain, Abel, and Seth – are mentioned).

2. Lot’s wife: name not mentioned in the bible even though she was turned into a pillar of salt (she had it coming … she was told not to look back!).

3. Lot’s two daughters: names not mentioned in the bible even though both of them had drunken sex in a cave, with their father, Lot, and bore him two sons (Moab and Benammi) .

4. Noah’s wife: name not mentioned in the bible even though she helped Noah feed T-Rex and all the other dinosaurs on the Ark. I’m assuming she also helped Noah get rid of all that dinosaur poop and whatnot.

5. Noah’s three daughters-in-law: names not mentioned in the bible even though they, too, helped Noah feed T-Rex and all the other dinosaurs on the Ark. I doubt that they helped clean the dinosaur cages, though.

6. Shem, Ham, and Japheth (Noah’s three sons)’s daughters (if they had any; the bible only tells us the names of the 16 sons between them).

The bible wants you to know the names of Noah’s grandsons (none of whom were aboard the Ark), but NOT the name of Noah’s wife (who actually WAS on the Ark). Interesting .

How many family trees have the names of all the men filled in and only blank boxes for the names of the women? Noah’s family tree certainly looks that way .


So, do you think the bible is sexist? Yes or no.
Try reading the views of the Christian Church fathers on women:

Pretty sickening stuff.


Tertullian: (c 160 – 225 AD)
"The curse God pronounced on your sex still weighs on the world."

"You are the devil's gateway"

"You are the first that deserted the divine laws. All too easily you destroyed the image of God, Adam".

"You led astray one whom the devil would not dare attack directly. It was your fault that the Son of God had to die; you should always go in mourning and rags."

Origen: (c 184 - c 253 AD)
"For [as Paul declares] "I do not permit a woman to teach," and even less "to tell a man what to do."


Clement of Alexandria: (c 150 - 215 AD)
"the consciousness of their own nature must evoke feelings of shame".

Augustine: (354–430 AD)
"Why was woman created at all?" "Woman was merely man's helpmate, a function which pertains to her alone. She is not the image of God but as far as man is concerned, he is by himself the image of God."

"I don't see what sort of help woman was created to provide man with, if one excludes procreation. If woman is not given to man for help in bearing children, for what help could she be? To till the earth together? If help were needed for that, man would have been a better help for man. The same goes for comfort in solitude. How much more pleasure is it for life and conversation when two friends live together than when a man and a woman cohabitate?" (he sounds like a closet case to me)


Ambrose: (c 337- c 397 AD)
"Adam was deceived by Eve, not Eve by Adam... it is right that he whom that woman induced to sin should assume the role of guide lest he fall again through feminine instability."

St Jerome: (c 347- 420 AD)
"woman is the root of all evil."

"It is contrary to the order of nature and of the law for women to speak in a gathering"


John Chrysostom: (347 - 407 AD)

"..the male sex enjoyed the higher honor. Man was first formed"

"He wishes the man to have the preeminence in every way." "for the sex is weak and fickle".

"It does not profit a man to marry. For what is a woman but an enemy of friendship, an inescapable punishment, a necessary evil, a natural temptation, a domestic danger, delectable mischief, a fault in nature, painted with beautiful colors?...The whole of her body is nothing less than phlegm, blood, bile, rheum and the fluid of digested food ..." (sounds like another closet case)

Boethius: (c 480 - 524 AD)

"Woman is a temple built over a sewer."

Pope Gregory: ( 540 - 604 AD) "Woman is slow in understanding and her unstable and naive mind renders her by way of natural weakness to the necessity of a strong hand in her husband. Her 'use' is two fold; sex and motherhood."

Albertus Magnus: (c 1200 - 1280 AD)
"Woman is less qualified [than man] for moral behavior. For the woman contains more liquid than man, and it is a property of liquid to take things up easily and to hold unto them poorly."

"Woman is a misbegotten man and has a faulty and defective nature in comparison to his"

Thomas Aquinas: (1225 - 1274 AD)
"Woman was made only to assist with procreation."

"So by such a kind of subjection woman is naturally subject to man, because in men the discretion of reason predominates."

And of course Paul:
"Now I permit a woman neither to teach nor exercise authority over a man, but let her be in quietness. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived [when he sinned]; but the woman, having [first] been thoroughly deceived, became [involved] in the transgression [of Adam].

It continued with the Protestant churches:

Martin Luther: (1483- 1586 AD)
"Women should remain at home, sit still, keep house and bear and bring up children"
"If a woman grows weary and at last dies from childbearing, it matters not. Let her die from bearing, she is there to do it."
"the wife should stay at home and look after the affairs of the household as one who has been deprived of the ability of administering those affairs that are outside and concern the state…."
"There is no gown or garment that worse becomes a woman than when she would be wise."

John Calvin: (1509 - 1564 AD)
"All women are born that they may acknowledge themselves as inferior to the male."
"the woman's place is in the home."
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Old 03-24-2013, 06:12 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
No.

It records life as it happened in the Middle East. That's just the way it is. If you want sexist, go to Iran. At least our religion doesn't teach you can beat your wife.
That's not what John Calvin believed. Aren't you a Calvinist?


John Calvin: (1509 - 1564 AD)
"All women are born that they may acknowledge themselves as inferior to the male."
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Old 03-24-2013, 06:13 AM
 
17,842 posts, read 14,420,165 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allenk893 View Post
No, the bible isn't sexist.
So you haven't read it then?
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Old 03-24-2013, 06:16 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Unfortunately like a lot of things it's yes AND no. A patriarchal society is not capable of producing a document that does not reflect its mores and times. (This is actually evidence against it being inspired, because god could and would surely produce a document that transcends its times rather than merely assuming all of its "givens").

So by 21st century standards, it's sexist; by 1st century standards it just is what it is. In fact I daresay that the Biblical take on women has been acceptable to most people (or at least most men!) for most of human history. It's a sad fact that the church did not take the lead on this issue but given its source documents perhaps this is no surprise.
This bears repeating.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Canada
1,996 posts, read 1,977,320 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
No.

It records life as it happened in the Middle East. That's just the way it is. If you want sexist, go to Iran. At least our religion doesn't teach you can beat your wife.
read a history book before making such ignorant claims. the bible is wrong on middle eastern life and history during ancient times
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Central Maine
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The Bible is what it is. It is our interpretation of it that makes it sexist or non-sexist.
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Ohio
24,620 posts, read 19,236,963 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DauntlessDan View Post
The Bible is what it is. It is our interpretation of it that makes it sexist or non-sexist.
Then the only possible interpretation is that the "Bible" it is sexist.

Women are ignored, mentioned only as a mere afterthought in passing. One gets the impression that women were helpless, useless and only capable of performing sexual gratification. It would seem women were incapable of leading, decision-making or ruler-ship, and their only function diplomatically was to serve as a gift of marriage to seal the deal for a peace-treaty.

Women are capable of accomplishing much, but there's no doubt the gods of the Bible never figured that out....which makes those gods inferior to me.

Interpreting (correctly)...


Mircea
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Old 03-28-2013, 02:39 PM
 
9,408 posts, read 13,769,543 times
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The bible is not a historical nor a scientific document by any stretch of the imagination.

'The Genesis 1 creation account conflicts with the order of events that are known to science. In Genesis, the earth is created before light and stars, birds and whales before reptiles and insects, and flowering plants before any animals. The order of events known from science is just the opposite. 1:1-2:3'

'Plants are made on the third day before there was a sun to drive their photosynthetic processes (1:14-19). 1:11'

These things are basic science. You would think a book supposedly written by god would get the basics correct.

Anyway who says the bible is not one of the worst book on misogyny obviously hasn't read it. It is filled to the brim with insults against women. Of course most of history reflects men's hatred of women so we can't just blame the bible in itself. But if god wanted equality he sure as hell didn't promote it. Oh wait, god never wanted equality, humans did
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