Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh1
What's dumb is the ^ incoherence. One of the standard definitions of philosophers for objective moral values is that they are grounded in something outside of the person who holds those values. Theists often ground them in the the nature of 'God' to have that objectivity. And yes some have some sort of Platonic view as well - that would be objective according to the above definition. When I talk of moral values I am talking about that which relates to us humans not pigs and or 'demons' - Einstein.
If you believe in objective moral values then give your definition and reasons for there objectivity. Hopefully it will be more intelligible than your first post.
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But I explained a bit jumbled, Great Philosopher!
"something outside" could include little Mickey's pet mongoose.
For the values to be truly objective they would have to be grounded in the objective sense: "In and of themselves."
"something outside" simply makes them subject to whatever particular thing they are grounded upon: such as a self-righteous deity.
The Problem of Morality is as strong as the Problem of Evil when arguing against particular God concepts.
Most pro-objective-moral-theists find it troubling that they can't explain whether "objective morals" are based on God's subjective wishes or if God is a messenger of objective morals which stand in and of themselves. The Abrahamics usually stand of the side of bowing to the Power of YHWH's subjective wishes, So what they usually mean by "Nature of God" is 'Bully Power.'
The whole point I brought up "demons" is because "Evil Demon" is a common possible God talked about in philosophical discussions of morality.
One objective moral value is that doing good is good, doing bad is bad, by the law of definition.
O.k. that's kinda a joke. And sorry about that first post, I didn't keep my audience in mind and started to trail off. By the end of it, I sort of just wrote down whatever I could regurgitate out of my internal dialogue... It's obvious now that its probably gonna go way over people head's, and probably way to the side as well.
A moral value like "helping old mongooses" could be inscribed into mongoose DNA and expressed as emotions, etc... but it is only moral/good because of our subjective judgement of it as such.
Numbers are not objective either, they don't exist in and of themselves, yet they represent things extremely well.
What sort of evidence are you looking for to subjectively JUDGE objectivity? Do you want physical evidence? A philosophical proof? Universal acceptance? What?