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It's been my experience the wrongdoer doesn't even think they've done anything to hurt someone else. Many times the person completely justifies their behavior against someone and can turn the person they hurt into the villain.
Which is why I believe that forgiveness shouldn't be 'for free'. And the cost is the realization of the offending person that he did offend.
Two things come to mind.
The first was probably the only time I ever lost my temper with a student. A girl's PE class had been playing field hockey and one girl -- as was her pattern -- threw a hissy fit because her team was losing. She threw her hockey stick in anger, it hit another girl in the mouth and broke off her two top front teeth right at the gum line. The victim ended up having to go under anesthesia for oral surgery. The perpetrator kept saying, "Well, I didn't mean to hit her in the mouth". In my view, she didn't accept resonsibility for her actions, so no forgiveness should be granted.
The other thing that came to mind was how often a kid would act out and in a discipline conference the teacher would DEMAND an apology. I couldn't teachers' heads that a forced apology based on the threat of suspension had no moral value.
This happened to me with my siblings, I guess they don't think I was wronged by them because they never apologized and turned me into the villain instead. They lied to other family members about me to get them on "their side" and I got labeled "the one who alienated the family" because I refuse to speak to my siblings and anyone from my family who is friendly with my siblings. Nobody cares about what they did to me to cause me to stop speaking to them, I'm the bad guy for not wanting toxic people in my life (BTW, the Bible, ministers, psychologists, etc. may preach forgiveness but they don't tell you to keep these people in your life).
I don't want to forgive them because I wouldn't be true to myself, they think the past should be "water under the bridge" after I suffered all the consequences of their actions.
I recall what a nazi concentration camp survivor once said, "If there is a God he will have to beg my forgiveness.". Sums it up in my opinion.
Yea thrill......... Alot dont understand why God lets all this bad stuff happen..... Im sure its against what he wants and he doesnt stop it......
I think he has washed his hands of us and is letting whatever happens HAPPEN which is sad really because alot of us are caring and wouldnt hurt anyone...... To ignore us also is kinda confusing.....
Yea thrill......... Alot dont understand why God lets all this bad stuff happen..... Im sure its against what he wants and he doesnt stop it......
I think he has washed his hands of us and is letting whatever happens HAPPEN which is sad really because alot of us are caring and wouldnt hurt anyone...... To ignore us also is kinda confusing.....
Where did you get the information that supports the claim, "...God lets all this bad stuff happen."?
Yea thrill......... Alot dont understand why God lets all this bad stuff happen..... Im sure its against what he wants and he doesnt stop it......
I think he has washed his hands of us and is letting whatever happens HAPPEN which is sad really because alot of us are caring and wouldnt hurt anyone...... To ignore us also is kinda confusing.....
To be truthful I've never seen or read of anything that makes me believe God/higher power in this universe ever really cared about us from the beginning. All the scientific and observable evidence far as I can determine shows that there was never any supernatural occurrence recorded by mankind that was outside the scope of what occurs on a daily basis. Christians like to say, "Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by yahweh reigning fire and brimstone down upon them". Any check of the historical record however would probably turn up evidence of a nearby eruption at the Harrat Ash Shamah volcanic field in southern Syria. To sum, God set up natural laws of evolution and then washed his hands of us from that point on.
Yea thrill......... Alot dont understand why God lets all this bad stuff happen..... Im sure its against what he wants and he doesnt stop it......
I think he has washed his hands of us and is letting whatever happens HAPPEN which is sad really because alot of us are caring and wouldnt hurt anyone...... To ignore us also is kinda confusing.....
My wife & I watched the movie, The Bombardment on Netflix last night. In it, a nun tells a classroom of kids, that in the time it takes to drop and pick up a pencil, years might pass from God's perspective. Later, when the church in which they have their Catholic school is accidentally bombed by the Allies, the nun and one of the students are trapped under tons of rubble, and this kid's voice in the darkness asks the nun, "Did God drop a pencil?" "Yes ... I think so", says the nun.
I recall what a nazi concentration camp survivor once said, "If there is a God he will have to beg my forgiveness.". Sums it up in my opinion.
Ultimately forgiveness is meant to cleanse one's own sense of outrage and anger and find a balance in life. Carrying a grudge, no matter how justified, is not healthy physically or mentally. One needs to resolve the hurt feeling by oneself, with one's own personal narrative if necessary, or seek therapy. To carry it with you like baggage is not useful.
The problem is not about letting go of the hard feelings, and setting yourself free, but naming that act as forgiveness and somehow bring god into it.
The forgiveness a person who is remorseful and filled with guilt can only receive from god, higher power, divinity within you, or whatever label you put on it or none at all.
For the person who feels wronged, forgiveness is a meaningless term. You cannot forgive someone who is not asking you to forgive, no matter how saintly it makes you feel.
Ultimately forgiveness is meant to cleanse one's own sense of outrage and anger and find a balance in life. Carrying a grudge, no matter how justified, is not healthy physically or mentally. One needs to resolve the hurt feeling by oneself, with one's own personal narrative if necessary, or seek therapy. To carry it with you like baggage is not useful.
The problem is not about letting go of the hard feelings, and setting yourself free, but naming that act as forgiveness and somehow bring god into it.
The forgiveness a person who is remorseful and filled with guilt can only receive from god, higher power, divinity within you, or whatever label you put on it or none at all.
For the person who feels wronged, forgiveness is a meaningless term. You cannot forgive someone who is not asking you to forgive, no matter how saintly it makes you feel.
I think that one can make a distinction between letting go of one's anger and outrage, and declining to ease the often faux troubled conscience of the perpetrator. I am happy to explicitly let a genuinely repentant person off the hook. I haven't had occasion to be wronged by someone so far gone that they don't really see what they did as wrong, and are asking me for absolution simply to help in rehabilitating their public image. But if I ever am, I do not plan to make it easy for them. Whether I let such a person "off the hook" or give them unearned trust again is a separate question from whether I'm stewing about it internally.
I don't have to make a spectacle of forgiving someone, or pretend the offense never happened, to prove that I don't "hold a grudge", either.
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