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There are an estimated 100 to 400 billion birds in the world today.
Looks like dinosaurs are far from being extinct.
Small winged dinosaurs weren't birds. Possibly dinosaurs were more reptilian. Crocodiles and alligators also existed during that time and they are certainly not extinct.
Birds are not dinosaurs. It takes a really active imagination to come to that conclusion - expecially when there are no transitory fossils in the current known fossil record to back up the claim. Evolutionists never cease to amaze me in their inability to think logically.
LOL...Do you think that you are using logic? Ask your average paleontologist who is familiar with the phylogeny of vertebrates and they will probably tell you that yes, birds (avians) are dinosaurs. Using proper terminology, birds are avian dinosaurs; other dinosaurs are non-avian dinosaurs, and (strange as it may sound) birds are technically considered reptiles. Read this if you dare.... Dinobuzz: Dinosaur-Bird Relationships
LOL...Do you think that you are using logic? Ask your average paleontologist who is familiar with the phylogeny of vertebrates and they will probably tell you that yes, birds (avians) are dinosaurs. Using proper terminology, birds are avian dinosaurs; other dinosaurs are non-avian dinosaurs, and (strange as it may sound) birds are technically considered reptiles. Read this if you dare.... Dinobuzz: Dinosaur-Bird Relationships
Right, the bird may be a descendent and evolved from the avian dinosaur, but not the other way around. Birds were non-existant during the dinosaur age.
Birds are not dinosaurs. It takes a really active imagination to come to that conclusion - expecially when there are no transitory fossils in the current known fossil record to back up the claim. Evolutionists never cease to amaze me in their inability to think logically.
Why do you say that? What makes you an authority on what is and is not a dinosaur? Your definition? This is akin to Creationist's self-defined explanations of evolution, purely as they choose to ignorantly see it: "a cat giving birth to an ape overnight..." ("Then I'd believe! Yuk yuk!")
(Cue the audience laughter.. Again....)
That dinosaurs MUST BE 25 feet tall and with lizard tails? What about velociraptor, which is pretty indistinguishable internally from a modern-day chicken when you take off it's feather-like structures (yup; some Velociraptor spp. had feathers... Sorry, but then I don't expect you to have actually read anything on the subject, so ignorance, esp. the purposeful type, is a form of bliss I suppose...).
Job proves nothing, and was only an hypothetical discussion between God and Job as to God's ability, if He chose, to create such a behemoth.
You want me to re-quote & post it here for you, or can you read?
You think that if T-Rex, Sauriptosaurs, velociraptors all chasing the village kids down to rip them apart for lunch, would NOT have been reported in the bible, which duly noted which people had what for breakfast?
Wat tripe. What gall, to be so intellectually dishonest! But so be it; go ahead: continue to define your ignorance! It's sorta amusing, though I must admit having to constantly correct the same kidz here is getting a bit tiresome!
Kids! There is no Easter Bunny. Devil, God or Santa Claus.
Why do you say that? What makes you an authority on what is and is not a dinosaur? Your definition? This is akin to Creationist's self-defined explanations of evolution, purely as they choose to ignorantly see it: "a cat giving birth to an ape overnight..." ("Then I'd believe! Yuk yuk!")
(Cue the audience laughter.. Again....)
That dinosaurs MUST BE 25 feet tall and with lizard tails? What about velociraptor, which is pretty indistinguishable internally from a modern-day chicken when you take off it's feather-like structures (yup; some Velociraptor spp. had feathers... Sorry, but then I don't expect you to have actually read anything on the subject, so ignorance, esp. the purposeful type, is a form of bliss I suppose...).
Job proves nothing, and was only an hypothetical discussion between God and Job as to God's ability, if He chose, to create such a behemoth.
You want me to re-quote & post it here for you, or can you read?
You think that if T-Rex, Sauriptosaurs, velociraptors all chasing the village kids down to rip them apart for lunch, would NOT have been reported in the bible, which duly noted which people had what for breakfast?
Wat tripe. What gall, to be so intellectually dishonest! But so be it; go ahead: continue to define your ignorance! It's sorta amusing, though I must admit having to constantly correct the same kidz here is getting a bit tiresome!
Kids! There is no Easter Bunny. Devil, God or Santa Claus.
When you address the fossil records which lacks evidence for your position I will be interested in what you have to say.
Right, the bird may be a descendent and evolved from the avian dinosaur, but not the other way around. Birds were non-existant during the dinosaur age.
Nice link.
No, birds and non-Avian dinosaurs coexisted for many millions of years.
The earliest known bird (ie, member of the class Aves) is Archaeopteryx, dating to approximately 150,000,000 years ago. The non-Avian dinosaurs went extinct at the K-T boundary, 65,000,000 years ago (or 85,000,000 years after the oldest known birds).
Birds are not dinosaurs. It takes a really active imagination to come to that conclusion - expecially when there are no transitory fossils in the current known fossil record to back up the claim. Evolutionists never cease to amaze me in their inability to think logically.
Avialae ("bird wings") is a clade of dinosaurs containing their only living representatives, birds (Aves), and the most immediate extinct relatives of birds.
When you address the fossil records which lacks evidence for your position I will be interested in what you have to say.
Actually, even when presented with irrefutable evidence, Creationists still dont believe... well, anything! All they do is migrate on to their next deflective & denialist knee-jerk responses.
Plus, Evolution is not responsible to provide, all neatly laid out and toe-tagged in order of evolutionary occurrence, a complete series of organisms from Species A on through Species B, just to convince the likes of you!
Not to mention that the so-called Missing Link idea of old is nothing more than wanting snap-shots of imagined specific animals, but all of those turn out to be but those aformentioned snap-shots of an event-point in Evolution, which operates as a continuous progress. Obviously. No apes into men, overnight.That is just plain stupitt.
So... you deny the most recent DNA genome lineage tracking, where we can categorically, unambiguously and undeniably show Evolution at work now, in all the modern animals, including man?
And yet, given that set of easily observable and reproducible facts, you'd still somehow deny it happened the same way back when? as in: all was under an entirely different set of operational biological Goddo rules back then, just soz you guys can vehemently deny dinosaurs pre-existed man by several million years, or that in fact, with fossilized and properly aged remnants, that they evolved from their working phenotype to a more modern one now?
We do also have many artifacts from the age of ancient historic Jerusalem, but oddly, not a single set of non-fossilized dino remains, with a studded collar, a doggy toy in it's mouth, or dino-soup bones found buried or lovingly placed in tombs, or alongside cooking bowls or spear points, or whatever?
Just the stupid & unrelated JOB account is all they bothered to write about? One account with an extremely vague reference to a single behemoth (about potential river-living elephants at best, btw, according to my bible...) is all the footage that well over 5 million species of dinosaurs get in the bible? Wow! Interesting, for such an amazing thing as pet or even wild-roaming massive Brontosaurus, Stegosaurus and Gigantosaurous dinosaurs, huh? (And you have the cajonés to call our evidence shoddy or missing?? Again: WOW!)
(Modern dinos, btw, include, of course, the modern Komodo Island Dragon, all the lizards and many other reptiles.. Oh yeah; and their direct relatives: all the birds....)
(Now when you gloatingly try to deny these linked reports [you asked, I provided. Quite simple, really...], which some later scientific evaluation modified regarding the specific Chinese finds(note: not by any credible, honest and educated religious critiques, but within the scientifiic community, self-regulating as it always is..) those reports DO NOT deny what was said or found, they just modified some of the initial conclusions. They still did find this fossil, and it did have wings and feather-like structures.
Too bad for you huh? But OK man; go ahead; now visit AiG or The Creation Museum's ultra-shoddy website and re-post their stupid, uninformed and unsupported rebuttals. Which, natch, they have to do, since this find hits them "right in the kisser"!
Boy are you ever the trusting but misguided soul! Have they ever got YOUR number, man!
Say: yah wanna buy a bridge?
Wow! Quite the imaginary world you choose to inhabit, I must say! But hey: I'm not going to waste any more of my better-educated and more valuable time trying to convert or convince you, because after all...
All I have to say has already been said. I had a teacher that was convinced that paleontologists just chipped out whatever shapes they felt like heh heh! He was a science teacher, as well.
Moderator cut: delete
Last edited by Miss Blue; 03-08-2012 at 04:35 PM..
Reason: rude picture even in this forum
If you are asking why God created anything - that is a whole other topic. He did create the dinosaurs. The tie-in with Adam and Eve? All the animals were created before Adam - and Adam gave names to all of them - Genesis 1:19-20. There were dinosaurs living after the Flood. God very clearly describes a dinosaur when he talks to Job about Behemoth(Job 40:15-24). Behemoth was an animal which Job was aware of - he could look at this animal and understand the description God gave. This animal then lived at the time Job did. The dinosaurs are now extinct. They did not go extinct several millions years ago (talk about fairy tales - the evolution people have that market corned!). The reasons for the extinction are unknown however species go extinct all the time - why should it be so hard to reason the dinosaurs went away for the same types of reasons: lack of food, predators(humans are at the top of the food chain), disease ,natural disaster, habitat imbalance, etc...The earth was very different after the Flood - if the dinosaurs could not adapt to the change they would have slowly died off.
When I was 12, I believed that the mythological beasts mentioned in Job referred to dinosaurs. Now, after having studied the Bible much more, I know better. Both creatures were mythological creatures mentioned in other parts of the Bible as having been at war with God at the beginning of time, at which point he defeated them and was able to establish power and continue with Creation. This theme was a common Ancient Near Eastern one that was evidenced by many peoples, especially by the account in Enma Elish of Babylon, and the story of Ba'al's defeat of Yamm - the Sea, in Ugarit.
The idea that the book of Job describes dinosaurs is a childish one - one that you should research a little more. He wasn't referring to earthly creatures at all, but divine mythological creatures.
Leviathan = Lotan in the Ugaritic myths. A quote from the Baal cycle:
When you smote Lotan, the swift serpent,
Destroyed the serpent Twisty,
The Tyrant with seven heads...
Another quote, this time giving the credit to Anat:
What foe has risen against Baal?
What enemy against the Cloud Rider?
Did I not smite El's darling Sea?
Did I not annihilate River the great god,
Did I not muzzle the Dragon? I muzzled him.
I smote the tortuous serpent,
The tyrant with seven heads.
I smote El's darling -
Vanquished the monstrous, ferocious bullock,
Smote El's b_tch Fire,
Annihhilated El's daughter Flame.
A peek at the Biblical book of Isaiah reveals similar language, with Yahweh killing the serpent in the Eschaton this time:
On that day Yahweh will punish with his great and strong sword Leviathan the fleeting serpent,
Leviathan the tortuous serpent,
and will slay the Dragon that is in the sea.
(Isaiah 27:1)
Gosh - I hope Yahweh isn't going to go hunt down a dinosaur and get into a fight with it! Because that would be.... awesome lol.
The previous Ugaritic myth mentioned several heads, so we must go to the Psalms to see if this holds up in Israelite tradition:
O God, my king of old,
Doer of saving deeds in the earth,
You shattered Sea by your might,
Broke the heads of the Dragon on the water,
Crushed the heads of Leviathan,
Made him food for the wilderness folk.
(Psalm 74:12-14)
That's a mighty big, mythical beast - if it's going to feed all those people. This idea would become even more fantastic in later legend.
Allegorical applications abound in other places. In relation to Egypt, the Nile River - the source of Egypt's prosperity - is likened to the twisty, tortuous shape of the Leviathan, just like the Nile's course:
Thus said [Yahweh] God;
I am going to deal with you, O Pharoah king of Egypt,
Mighty monster, sprawling in your channels,
Who said,
My Nile is my own;
I made it for myself.
I will put hooks in your jaws,
And make the fish of your channels
Cling to your scales;
I will haul you up from your channels,
With all the fish of your channels
Clinging to your scales.
And I will fling you into the desert,
With all the fish of your channels.
You shall be left lying in the open,
Ungathered and unburied:
I have given you as food
To the beasts of the earth
And the birds of the sky.
Then all the inhabitants of Egypt shall know
That I am [Yahweh]!
(Ezekiel 29:3-6, NJPS)
Notice the familiar language from Job concerning Leviathan's scales, drawing him up with a hook, and references to Isaiah's desert folk. Only Yahweh can draw Leviathan up with a hook, or pierce his scales. The mythical imagery is used to great effect here, and the author of Job was fully aware of his mythical material. Another reference, again against Egypt:
O great beast among the nations, you are doomed!
You are like the Dragon in the seas,
Thrusting through [your] streams,
Stirring up the water with your feet
And muddying their streams!
Thus said [Yahweh] God:
I will cast My net over you
In an assembly of many peoples,
And you shall be hauled up in My toils.
And I will fling you to the ground,
Hurl you upon the open field.
I will cause all the birds of the sky
To settle upon you.
I will cause the beasts of all the earth
To batten on you.
I will cast your carcass upon the hills
And fill the valleys with your rotting flesh.
I will drench the earth
With your oozing blood upon the hills,
And the watercourses shall be filled with your [gore].
(Ezekiel 32:2-6, NJPS)
Ezekiel is a master poet, and his usage of the mythical story of Yahweh's battle with Leviathan is borrowed again. The Psalms let us know where the Leviathan 'sports' (a reference to the fight?), as if we do not already know, but here ya' go:
There is the sea, vast and wide,
with its creatures beyond number,
living things, small and great.
There go the ships,
and Leviathan that You formed to sport with.
(Psalm 104:25-26, NJPS)
Mounds of material can, and have, be written on the subject. The author of Job seems to have been referring to the Crocodile in his poem, but used the mythic imagery of the Leviathan - Yahweh's once-and-future enemy - to give poetic depth to his portrayal. A dinosaur? Or, technically, a non-dinosaur (such as a Plesiosaur, etc...)? No.... I'm afraid not.
Last edited by whoppers; 03-07-2012 at 06:53 PM..
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Braayhhyyyyy....
